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Post by foxjj on Sept 3, 2021 20:33:02 GMT
We are living in an age where marriage is no longer looked upon as relevant, and living together is the popular way to go.
That been said, I am inviting everyone to share their thoughts on this controversial subject. As starters I submit Scriptures that lay out the Christian understanding of marriage, divorce and remarriage:
“And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?” 4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” 7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” 8 He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.” (Mathew 19:3-9)
“Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of his body. 31 “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. 33 However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.” (Ephesians 5:25-33)
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Post by mfox on Sept 4, 2021 16:56:00 GMT
We are living in an age where marriage is no longer looked upon as relevant, and living together is the popular way to go. That been said, I am inviting everyone to share their thoughts on this controversial subject. As starters I submit Scriptures that lay out the Christian understanding of marriage, divorce and remarriage: “And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?” 4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” 7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” 8 He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.” (Mathew 19:3-9) “Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of his body. 31 “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. 33 However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.” (Ephesians 5:25-33) I believe there are two types of marriage the worldly view and the Godly view The worldly view is based on a vow commitment together (that the world has stet up a way to get out of that commitment with divorce) between two people a man and a woman officially with a signed certificate. Now this type of marriage can be with two males or two females. The Godly view is a vow of commitment together between three a man a woman and the third member of the marriage God. In the past there wasn’t a certificate like between Adam and Eve it was based on vow of commitment. The Godly marriage was also pointing to the marriage between Israel and God (which ended in divorce because of Israel’s fornication with other gods) but now it is between the church and God.
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Post by foxjj on Sept 4, 2021 23:29:13 GMT
The controversy comes when we discuss divorce and remarriage. There are some Churches who allow divorce but not remarriage, while others do allow remarriage. Any thoughts regarding these subjects?
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Post by randy on Sept 5, 2021 17:35:56 GMT
To disallow remarriage after a divorce is to cast judgment on something that would be hard to know at times. I don't think there can be any set rule in divorce and remarriage issues because the matter is complex, and we know that every sin can be forgiven.
As for allowing leadership from one who is divorced and remarried, it really depends on whether the party is healed or not. A person devastated after a divorce is hardly in a position to lead.
Clearly, the Scriptures call "sin" any matter of being unloving towards others, and in any matter of breaking contracts legitimately put together. A divorce may result from both parties doing wrong, or from only one person doing wrong. It would be wrong to condemn the innocent party in a divorce who gets remarried.
The one who is wrong in the divorce can be a nominal Christian who knows right and wrong, and yet does not know anything about the power of God. I was in such a situation where I sinned and ignored my conscience (in my youth), not knowing the value of God's power in my life. A person who sins thus and then finds a true commitment to Christ in the power of God may evidence more healing than someone who knowingly does wrong and knows the power of God.
There are just so many different scenarios. If I was to sum it up, I would focus on God's grace to forgive, and then want to see evidence of God's continuing love in that person's life. To be a leader, though, requires evidence of God's good pleasure and a righteousness that overshadows selfish acts committed in the past.
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Post by mfox on Sept 5, 2021 19:44:51 GMT
The controversy comes when we discuss divorce and remarriage. There are some Churches who allow divorce but not remarriage, while others do allow remarriage. Any thoughts regarding these subjects? Marriage should be allowed under the right circumstances
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Post by foxjj on Sept 6, 2021 7:05:53 GMT
What in your opinion are the right circumstances for remarriage?
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Post by princess on Sept 6, 2021 12:15:07 GMT
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Post by randy on Sept 6, 2021 16:06:21 GMT
What in your opinion are the right circumstances for remarriage? My stepson is going through this right now, as is my daughter. In the case of my stepson, his "Christian" wife threw him out and had the police arrest him when he broke a restraining order. The cause of the division in the relationship is complex and personal. We shouldn't try to over-analyze. There should be a reasonable "cooling off period," to determine that my stepson's wife will not undo the restraining order and will never take my stepson back. At that point, remarriage is available to my stepson. Paul wrote that it is better for the Christian to marry than to burn with lust and with covetousness. One should marry if he or she cannot fix the marriage. Besides, many marriages have begun on a false foundation, when two people are married and one of them is either not a true, practicing Christian or who backslides from a respectable Christian life. God has made it clear in His laws that two people should have the right religion, should have "no other gods," and should not be "unequally yoked." But there is a lot of grace that the Christian is supposed to exercise in these many possible circumstances. We should pray a lot and depend heavily on how God guides. My daughter has remained single for quite some time after her divorce. She is now born again, and realizes not only that she and her husband had not been true practicing Christians, but also that they had not built their marriage on a good foundation. She is determined to do it right this time, and is getting counselling, studying the Bible, and doing all the things a person needs to do to get healed before getting married again.
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Post by foxjj on Sept 6, 2021 18:40:34 GMT
Thank you for sharing Randy. There is no easy answer to humanity’s problems when we stray from God’s ways.
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Post by foxjj on Sept 6, 2021 18:40:49 GMT
Rather than using other peoples opinions on these subjects, be they good or controversial, let us share our personal opinions and understandings.
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Post by Naama on Sept 6, 2021 19:27:14 GMT
Oh yay! Lets let subjective relativism trump the clear commands of Jesus.
You must have the wisdom of a god
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Post by Naama on Sept 6, 2021 19:29:15 GMT
Oh by the way that paul would be a single or widowed Christian
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Post by foxjj on Sept 7, 2021 3:46:54 GMT
Oh yay! Lets let subjective relativism trump the clear commands of Jesus. You must have the wisdom of a god Because I do not have the wisdom of a god, why do you not share your understanding of the clear commands of Jesus regarding our subjects.
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Post by foxjj on Sept 7, 2021 3:48:17 GMT
Oh by the way that paul would be a single or widowed Christian Sorry Princess but I do not understand this post.
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Post by princess on Sept 7, 2021 11:44:16 GMT
I wrote "Oh by the way that paul would be talking about a single or widowed Christian"
In response to randy writing this: "Paul wrote that it is better for the Christian to marry than to burn with lust and with covetousness. One should marry if he or she cannot fix the marriage"
Randy is claiming something foreign to what scripture claims
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Post by foxjj on Sept 7, 2021 19:03:58 GMT
Your point is well taken Princess. Randy was using that Scripture in the way that many understand it today. The passenger is found in 1 Corinthians 7:6-11 and should be read in context: “6 Now as a concession, not a command, I say this. 7 I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another. 8 To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. 9 But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion. 10 To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband 11 (but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife.”
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Post by randy on Sept 8, 2021 3:26:03 GMT
Your point is well taken Princess. Randy was using that Scripture in the way that many understand it today. The passenger is found in 1 Corinthians 7:6-11 and should be read in context: “6 Now as a concession, not a command, I say this. 7 I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another. 8 To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. 9 But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion. 10 To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband 11 (but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife.” Why is her point "well taken?" I do use the Scripture in the way that many understand it today and yesterday. That's exactly what it says! I don't see how it can be read in any other way. The Jews say that the 1st command is to marry and have kids (or something to the effect). God made the genders to want each other, both for social reasons and for biological reasons--none of this is shameful or sinful. But Paul is concerned that this normal desire can lead to sin due to the sin nature that is in us. And so, he would not have us deny ourselves a natural gift to set us up for temptation unless we have such a gift that we really aren't tempted by abstinence. Please explain?
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Post by randy on Sept 8, 2021 3:27:35 GMT
I wrote "Oh by the way that paul would be talking about a single or widowed Christian" In response to randy writing this: "Paul wrote that it is better for the Christian to marry than to burn with lust and with covetousness. One should marry if he or she cannot fix the marriage" Randy is claiming something foreign to what scripture claims No, I'm quoting the Scripture! Single and widowed Christians is not something I've ignored at all. What makes you think so?
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Post by foxjj on Sept 8, 2021 7:13:42 GMT
Your point is well taken Princess. Randy was using that Scripture in the way that many understand it today. The passenger is found in 1 Corinthians 7:6-11 and should be read in context: “6 Now as a concession, not a command, I say this. 7 I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another. 8 To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. 9 But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion. 10 To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband 11 (but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife.” Why is her point "well taken?" I do use the Scripture in the way that many understand it today and yesterday. That's exactly what it says! I don't see how it can be read in any other way. The Jews say that the 1st command is to marry and have kids (or something to the effect). God made the genders to want each other, both for social reasons and for biological reasons--none of this is shameful or sinful. But Paul is concerned that this normal desire can lead to sin due to the sin nature that is in us. And so, he would not have us deny ourselves a natural gift to set us up for temptation unless we have such a gift that we really aren't tempted by abstinence. Please explain? Randy, I was acknowledging that the quote was originally addressed to the unmarried and the widowed: “8 To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. 9 But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.” I also pointed out that you were using that Scripture in the way many use it today.
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Post by randy on Sept 8, 2021 23:08:44 GMT
I wrote "Oh by the way that paul would be talking about a single or widowed Christian" In response to randy writing this: "Paul wrote that it is better for the Christian to marry than to burn with lust and with covetousness. One should marry if he or she cannot fix the marriage" Randy is claiming something foreign to what scripture claims I'm not sure I was responding to that statement at all. I'd be happy to address matters concerning single or widowed Christians. But the issue has to do with divorce and remarriage.
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