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Post by princess on Aug 26, 2022 3:32:02 GMT
You assume in the first example the woman is a believer but believers are commanded not to be unequally yoked with a non believer. Where are the parents? Yes. Parents have every right to say yes or no to who their son or daughter marries. Disobey your parents? Not a believer. Children are commanded to obey parents. Where is the pastor? A pastor is obligated not to marry a believer with a non believer or he is not a believer. When authority structures break down then everyone is his/her own authority. In the real world, your "authority structure" doesn't always exist. To say Christians don't sin by marrying unbelievers is false. They do. Do Christian children disobey parents? Yes, they do. Children who are grown up do not consult their parents as to who they marry. Pastors do marry couples who sometimes *claim* to be Christians, but really are not. This does happen. Your ideal world does not exist, princess. But your standards are biblical. I'm not advocating that children disobey parents, nor that wives disobey their husbands. I'm just concerned to apply biblical standards as they are meant to be applied. Children do not have to obey pagan parents who ask them to steal something. Wives do not have to obey pagan husbands who want to have pagan parties in the home. This "disobedience" is actually biblical obedience, because Jesus commanded us to put God ahead of our families. We are told to seek the Kingdom of God first, before all else. We are told we must obey God, and not necessarily Man. To say this is advocacy for sin is flat out wrong! To sacrifice family relationships is as old as Abraham offering up his beloved son Isaac as evidence that he put God first! In the real world parents raise children in fear of the Lord and to disobey me or their father is an offense against God because our authority is from God. No means no. I guarantee my boys will ask permission to marry at 19 or 29. Don't pee on my head and tell me its raining. Most churches marry believer to non believers and two adulterers. You said "Children do not have to obey pagan parents who ask them to steal something" Yep they do! Then dont pay your taxes because biden or trudeau believe in transsexuals, gay marriage and abortion
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Post by princess on Aug 26, 2022 4:53:48 GMT
Nearly every single one of Jesus' commandments has been outright rejected on this site. These are very serious accusations Naama. We have been promoting The Gospel of Jesus Christ faithfully on this website since 2018. I respectfully ask that you show evidence for your condemning statement. How about me first. Do you remember I posted a few videos about coronavirus here by JP Sears? I apologize for posting them and they should be taken down. Yes. I am a hypocrite. The government has every right to command vaccinations even though our prime minister is neck deep supporting sin and evil. Ron Desantis does not not cancel out Justin Trudeau. I even encouraged a new convert to quit her job and quit school to avoid the vax but things ended up boomeranging on me. What I did is a serious offense against God because the source of our government and her employers authority is Jesus Christ. She feared God and got vaxxed even though she believed the government could be harming her. She totally got the gospel. Like Randy, I gave her every caveat and exception clause to disobey but she knew I was full of phoney baloney because there are no exceptions.
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Post by foxjj on Aug 26, 2022 5:47:13 GMT
Thank you for your honesty Naama. Nevertheless, you have not backed up your accusation that we have outrightly rejected nearly everyone of Jesus commandments on this website.
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Post by Naama on Aug 26, 2022 23:41:28 GMT
I cannot prove anything to you John if you fail to see that even the replies themselves show rebellion against God.
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Post by princess on Aug 27, 2022 4:54:48 GMT
Truth should be liberating John.
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Post by foxjj on Aug 27, 2022 6:29:19 GMT
I cannot prove anything to you John if you fail to see that even the replies themselves show rebellion against God. I am not asking you to prove a anything Naama, I am asking you to back up your accusation that we have outrightly rejected nearly everyone of Jesus commandments on this website. Each believer is at a different point in their walk of faith, and we allow people to share their life struggles and their understanding of their faith. We do this with respect understanding that some have more struggles in life than others. This website has a vast supply of teachings for people to read and grow in their faith. We also believe that communicating respectfully shows the love of Jesus, thereby encouraging one another in our faith. “But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,” 1 Peter 3:15
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Post by foxjj on Aug 27, 2022 6:33:17 GMT
Truth should be liberating John. Truth is indeed liberating and I give thanks for the truth which led me to my Savior.
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Post by mfox on Aug 27, 2022 6:36:57 GMT
Nearly every single one of Jesus' commandments has been outright rejected on this site. If a post is on this site it doesn’t mean that this site agrees with everything the post says. We do debate and correct people and we have even deleted some post.
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Post by mfox on Aug 27, 2022 7:06:29 GMT
These are very serious accusations Naama. We have been promoting The Gospel of Jesus Christ faithfully on this website since 2018. I respectfully ask that you show evidence for your condemning statement. How about me first. Do you remember I posted a few videos about coronavirus here by JP Sears? I apologize for posting them and they should be taken down. Yes. I am a hypocrite. The government has every right to command vaccinations even though our prime minister is neck deep supporting sin and evil. Ron Desantis does not not cancel out Justin Trudeau. I even encouraged a new convert to quit her job and quit school to avoid the vax but things ended up boomeranging on me. What I did is a serious offense against God because the source of our government and her employers authority is Jesus Christ. She feared God and got vaxxed even though she believed the government could be harming her. She totally got the gospel. Like Randy, I gave her every caveat and exception clause to disobey but she knew I was full of phoney baloney because there are no exceptions. Blanket statements like “there are no exception” aren’t true for a few examples what about when some countries governments made it illegal to be a Christian and spread the gospel? We both know that Christians persecuted for spreading the gospel weren’t wrong don’t we? Even the book of acts says that we have to obey God over man rules. Yes Roman’s 13:1 does have some truth to it but not in every situation even Paul didn’t always obey Rome. Also If we know that the government would purposely do something to hurt our children we have to do the right thing and protect our children first wouldn’t we?
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Post by princess on Aug 27, 2022 7:30:18 GMT
So I could be right but once again everyone else is to blame Marty?
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Post by princess on Aug 27, 2022 17:33:04 GMT
How about me first. Do you remember I posted a few videos about coronavirus here by JP Sears? I apologize for posting them and they should be taken down. Yes. I am a hypocrite. The government has every right to command vaccinations even though our prime minister is neck deep supporting sin and evil. Ron Desantis does not not cancel out Justin Trudeau. I even encouraged a new convert to quit her job and quit school to avoid the vax but things ended up boomeranging on me. What I did is a serious offense against God because the source of our government and her employers authority is Jesus Christ. She feared God and got vaxxed even though she believed the government could be harming her. She totally got the gospel. Like Randy, I gave her every caveat and exception clause to disobey but she knew I was full of phoney baloney because there are no exceptions. Blanket statements like there are no exception aren’t true for a few examples what about when some countries governments made it illegal to be a Christian and spread the gospel? We both know that Christians persecuted for spreading the gospel weren’t wrong don’t we? Even the book of acts says that we have to obey God over man rules. Yes Roman’s 13:1 does have some truth to it but not in every situation even Paul didn’t always obey Rome. Also If we know that the government would purposely do something to hurt our children we have to do the right thing and protect our children first wouldn’t we? A Christian is always obeying God by obeying those in authority because the source of all authority is God. To obey authority is to obey God and to disobey authority is to disobey God. A Christian would plead no contest and accept whatever punishment is handed down if the government made it illegal to obey God because we are always obeying God when we obey our authorities.
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Post by mfox on Aug 27, 2022 17:40:23 GMT
So I could be right but once again everyone else is to blame Marty? I am asking questions to try to understand what exactly you are saying. Now I greatly respect you and I have learned a lot from you. I know how wise you are and that you teach in a way of tough love and try to get people to see things from another point of view. I know that you are not trying to be disrespectful here but you and trying to get us to see this through another point of view but you are also not answering questions for a reason. You said this ”You said "Children do not have to obey pagan parents who ask them to steal something" Yep they do!”. That would contradict? James 4:17 So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin. So what should a Christian do in a situation like this?
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Post by mfox on Aug 27, 2022 17:44:01 GMT
Blanket statements like there are no exception aren’t true for a few examples what about when some countries governments made it illegal to be a Christian and spread the gospel? We both know that Christians persecuted for spreading the gospel weren’t wrong don’t we? Even the book of acts says that we have to obey God over man rules. Yes Roman’s 13:1 does have some truth to it but not in every situation even Paul didn’t always obey Rome. Also If we know that the government would purposely do something to hurt our children we have to do the right thing and protect our children first wouldn’t we? A Christian is always obeying God by obeying those in authority because the source of all authority is God. To obey authority is to obey God and to disobey authority is to disobey God. A Christian would plead no contest and accept whatever punishment is handed down if the government made it illegal to obey God because we are always obeying God when we obey our authorities. But Paul and the disciples disobeyed authority by preaching the gospel.
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Post by mfox on Aug 27, 2022 18:08:35 GMT
Blanket statements like there are no exception aren’t true for a few examples what about when some countries governments made it illegal to be a Christian and spread the gospel? We both know that Christians persecuted for spreading the gospel weren’t wrong don’t we? Even the book of acts says that we have to obey God over man rules. Yes Roman’s 13:1 does have some truth to it but not in every situation even Paul didn’t always obey Rome. Also If we know that the government would purposely do something to hurt our children we have to do the right thing and protect our children first wouldn’t we? A Christian is always obeying God by obeying those in authority because the source of all authority is God. To obey authority is to obey God and to disobey authority is to disobey God. A Christian would plead no contest and accept whatever punishment is handed down if the government made it illegal to obey God because we are always obeying God when we obey our authorities. Yes we would accept the punishment but that’s not the topic we are discussing here that it different from obeying man over God. Acts 5:29 29 Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than human beings!
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Post by princess on Aug 27, 2022 19:15:40 GMT
Libertarian's often argue that we see exceptions in other scriptures that negates other scriptures. However, these other scriptures give no exception because there isn’t any exception. Christians are told to obey God.
There is no need to go off to other Scriptures (like Acts 5:28-29) because the entire witness of scripture makes it crystal clear that we are to always obey God.
What this means is that human authorities always have God’s authority and have the right to command whatever they desire of their subjects. They simply don’t have the authority to tell people to disobey God because Christians are never really engaged in the act of obeying any human authority but rather always engaged in the act of obeying God.
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Post by mfox on Aug 27, 2022 19:37:26 GMT
Libertarian's often argue that we see exceptions in other scriptures that negates other scriptures. However, these other scriptures give no exception because there isn’t any exception. Christians are told to obey God. There is no need to go off to other Scriptures (like Acts 5:28-29) because the entire witness of scripture makes it crystal clear that we are to always obey God. What this means is that human authorities always have God’s authority and have the right to command whatever they desire of their subjects. They simply don’t have the authority to tell people to disobey God because Christians are never really engaged in the act of obeying any human authority but rather always engaged in the act of obeying God. So then we are in agreement we obey God over humans.
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Post by princess on Aug 27, 2022 20:23:47 GMT
Not really.
The very idea that one can pit a human authority against the authority of God implies that the human authority is a lesser authority and not the same authority.
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Post by mfox on Aug 27, 2022 20:33:36 GMT
Not really. The very idea that one can pit a human authority against the authority of God implies that the human authority is a lesser authority and not the same authority. They may have the same authority in our lives but we obey God over humans because humans can be wrong and go against commands.
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Post by randy on Aug 27, 2022 20:46:32 GMT
1. Encouraging divorce and remarriage See in controversial section 2. Saying a wife obeying her husband is a made up rule and construct and offering caveats to smother msns wife. You know the context was how the church expresses genuine love towards christ. Can you give me an example from scripture that backs randy up? Does God allow us to disobey trudeus because he supports things that would male a Roman blush? Naama, I would like the liberty to express my honest Bible-based views without having them reflect upon the entire website. The founders and administrators of this website are separate from me. I only came here because Marty and I discussed things on another forum, and found we could respectfully disagree on matters. Quite frankly, he's very likeable. I learned of this forum from him, and I'm always looking for new places to engage fellow Christians and others in discussions. The administrators clearly do not always agree with me. But they always try to be respectful, particularly when both sides base their beliefs on the Bible. If we carry on a discussion in the "Controversial" section, please do not take that as representative of anybody other than myself? Thank you for your understanding.
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Post by randy on Aug 27, 2022 20:57:19 GMT
For the record, I do *not* believe that the Bible teaches that human authority is equal to divine authority. As has been pointed out, there are times when we must obey God rather than Man. That is, human authority sometimes commits "over-reach" and commands us to do things that we *must not do* as Christians.
I'm applying that same principle to families, to children, and to spouses. When one spouse commands the other to do something pagan, the Christian *must not* obey! When parents tell their children they must do something sinful, they must *not* obey! If pastors tell you that immoral acts are really okay, and you should do as you please, you must *not* obey them!
Generally, God maintains order in societies by setting up authorities who are responsible enough to maintain the public order. But we are warned that there are limits to this "authority." It is no longer "divine authority" when that human authority exceeds God's limits. And we learn what those limits are from the Scriptures.
"Obeying authority" is not "salvation," as it has now been explained. And that was my concern from the start, although I did not prejudge the one who advocated for it. Salvation is the choice to sacrifice our worldly life for the life of Christ through the Spirit of Christ. Anything we do in this world, including obeying authorities, may be good in part, but if it does not take place according to the word of God and through the Spirit of Christ, it is *not* "Salvation!"
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