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Post by mfox on Oct 29, 2019 0:00:36 GMT
There are only four verses in the entire bible that uses the word antichrist
1 John 2:18
18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
1 John 2:22
22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3
3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
2 John 1:7
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
Many Christians believe that the antichrist will be the future evil world ruler of the book of Revelation who will rule the world during the end times but is that what the bible actually teaches?
It is interesting that John the disciple who wrote the four verses mentioning the word antichrist was the same John who wrote the book of Revelation. It is also interesting that John didn’t use the word antichrist in the book of Revelation. Why would this be? Could it be that the antichrist John wrote about in his epistles is different from the one most Christians believe to be the antichrist in the book of Revelation?
John used the word beast to describe the evil persecuting world leader in the book of Revelation and its description and character is much different from the description and character of the antichrist. The beast is described symbolically as a ten horned seven headed creature who rules the world and persecutes the saints.
Let’s look at who and what John says is the antichrist.
1 John 2:18-27
18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.[e] 21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life.
26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.
John is showing us that the antichrist isn’t just one person but many people. John is also stating that the antichrist was present before, after and during his day. John also states that the antichrist is the opposite of truth and John tells us in the verse below that Jesus is truth
John 14:6
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Thus this antichrist who John says is a liar is antichrist because it is the opposite of truth which is Jesus who is the Christ.
Let’s look at what else John says is the antichrist.
1 John 4:1-6
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.
Once again John tells us that this antichrist is not just one but many. John tells us again that the antichrist was present in his day and John also tells us that the antichrist is not just people but it is actually a spirit. Let’s take a look at the last time that John mentions the word antichrist.
2 John 1:4-11
4 It has given me great joy to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as the Father commanded us. 5 And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. 6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch out that you do not lose what we have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. 11 Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.
John tells us once again that the antichrist isn’t just one but many. John then goes on to say that this antichrist is the deceiving spirit who denies that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. Jesus Christ coming in the flesh means that the Man Jesus is the Christ the anointed one the Messiah the son of God.
When we read all four verses that uses the word antichrist it seems that he was meaning apostate Israel in his day. Apostate Israel was active when John wrote these words and they denied that Jesus was the Christ by denying Jesus they also denied the Father. Antichrist is not complete in apostate Israel but they do fit the description John gave in his day.
The antichrist is much different from the sea beast in the book of Revelation. The sea beast purpose is to rule the earth to be worshipped as god, destroy Babylon the great and to try to wipeout the church. The antichrist purpose to deceive and to divert people away from the Messiah Jesus the Christ. The antichrist is more like the land beast from the book of Revelation also known as the false prophet.
In conclusion John teaches in the bible that the antichrist is not a future evil world leader but a deceiving spirit within many people who was present in John’s day and whose purpose was to divert people away from the true Messiah Jesus the Christ. John used different titles for the beast and the antichrist for a reason and John showed us what those reasons were.
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Post by randy on Oct 29, 2019 6:05:41 GMT
1 John 2.18 as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come.
John, in my view, is stating as fact that the Antichrist will come. And he is stating that in the same way, there is a preliminary, intervening period, in which antichrists in general characterize the present age.
The Antichrist is derived from Dan 7, where he is referred to as a "Little Horn," ruling among 10 horns, or kingdoms. 3 of the 10 rulers are put down, leaving 7 kings and 10 kingdoms.
John calls him the Antichrist in 1 John, and he identifies him as a Beast Kingdom in the book of Revelation, having 7 heads and 10 horns. Among the 7 heads, or kings, Antichrist is the 8th head, or king. He rules over them all.
Though I know this contradicts the Amillennial view presented above, I believe the Early Church had a variety of positions on the Antichrist that generally accord with what I've presented. But we must pursue it for ourselves, and embrace what we think is closest to biblical eschatology.
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Post by journeyman on Oct 29, 2019 8:35:58 GMT
Hi marty.
After focusing on the scriptures you cited from the letters of John, it seems to me that anti-christ may not be people who outright or overtly deny that Jesus came into the world, but pervert his gospel message.
John says, "They went out from us" (1Jn.2:19). This could mean they splintered into another sect of Christianity, morphed into a church proclaiming Jesus, but a false Jesus, one that is anti what Christ taught. (Not to get off the subject, but regarding our other talk, since the truth of Christ binds Satan, perverting the gospel would be equal to Satan's release).
John says they, "denieth that Jesus is the Christ" (1Jn.2:22). Again, looking at this chapter, John is speaking about people who claim to know Jesus, people who say they're in the light.
John says, "believe not every spirit" (1Jn.4:1). Why would a church member believe what the spirit of this world says?, unless that spirit was trying to enter a congregation.
John says,"many deceivers are entered into the world" (2Jn.1:7). Entered the world from where? From the church.
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Post by mfox on Oct 29, 2019 16:19:49 GMT
1 John 2.18 as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. John, in my view, is stating as fact that the Antichrist will come. And he is stating that in the same way, there is a preliminary, intervening period, in which antichrists in general characterize the present age. The Antichrist is derived from Dan 7, where he is referred to as a "Little Horn," ruling among 10 horns, or kingdoms. 3 of the 10 rulers are put down, leaving 7 kings and 10 kingdoms. John calls him the Antichrist in 1 John, and he identifies him as a Beast Kingdom in the book of Revelation, having 7 heads and 10 horns. Among the 7 heads, or kings, Antichrist is the 8th head, or king. He rules over them all. Though I know this contradicts the Amillennial view presented above, I believe the Early Church had a variety of positions on the Antichrist that generally accord with what I've presented. But we must pursue it for ourselves, and embrace what we think is closest to biblical eschatology. What I'm getting at in this study is that the personality of the antichrist described by John is much different from the personality of the beast. They are different and have different task. The antichrist diverts people from Jesus but the beast is more of a self proclaiming god and persecuter. Maybe if you reread the post you will see what I mean He is more like the false prophet than the beast |
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Post by mfox on Oct 29, 2019 16:27:38 GMT
Hi marty. After focusing on the scriptures you cited from the letters of John, it seems to me that anti-christ may not be people who outright or overtly deny that Jesus came into the world, but pervert his gospel message. John says, "They went out from us" (1Jn.2:19). This could mean they splintered into another sect of Christianity, morphed into a church proclaiming Jesus, but a false Jesus, one that is anti what Christ taught. (Not to get off the subject, but regarding our other talk, since the truth of Christ binds Satan, perverting the gospel would be equal to Satan's release). John says they, "denieth that Jesus is the Christ" (1Jn.2:22). Again, looking at this chapter, John is speaking about people who claim to know Jesus, people who say they're in the light. John says, "believe not every spirit" (1Jn.4:1). Why would a church member believe what the spirit of this world says?, unless that spirit was trying to enter a congregation. John says,"many deceivers are entered into the world" (2Jn.1:7). Entered the world from where? From the church. I agree with you and that is part of what I am saying. I'm not saying that they actually deny that Jesus physically came into the world its more of that they deny who Jesus is. They pervert the person of Jesus. |
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Post by randy on Oct 29, 2019 16:50:09 GMT
Hi marty. After focusing on the scriptures you cited from the letters of John, it seems to me that anti-christ may not be people who outright or overtly deny that Jesus came into the world, but pervert his gospel message. John says, "They went out from us" (1Jn.2:19). This could mean they splintered into another sect of Christianity, morphed into a church proclaiming Jesus, but a false Jesus, one that is anti what Christ taught. (Not to get off the subject, but regarding our other talk, since the truth of Christ binds Satan, perverting the gospel would be equal to Satan's release). John says they, "denieth that Jesus is the Christ" (1Jn.2:22). Again, looking at this chapter, John is speaking about people who claim to know Jesus, people who say they're in the light. John says, "believe not every spirit" (1Jn.4:1). Why would a church member believe what the spirit of this world says?, unless that spirit was trying to enter a congregation. John says,"many deceivers are entered into the world" (2Jn.1:7). Entered the world from where? From the church. I agree with you and that is part of what I am saying. I'm not saying that they actually deny that Jesus physically came into the world its more of that they deny who Jesus is. They pervert the person of Jesus. No, I got what you were claiming--I just didn't agree. Antichrist was a major prophecy in Dan 7, and impacts all NT mentions of the Antichrist. There are 2 elements to the theology of Antichrist in the NT. There is the Antichrist himself, and there are the many antichrists who exist in the present age, preceding his coming. They are all similar, in my view. |
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Post by mfox on Oct 29, 2019 16:53:16 GMT
I agree with you and that is part of what I am saying. I'm not saying that they actually deny that Jesus physically came into the world its more of that they deny who Jesus is. They pervert the person of Jesus. No, I got what you were claiming--I just didn't agree. Antichrist was a major prophecy in Dan 7, and impacts all NT mentions of the Antichrist. There are 2 elements to the theology of Antichrist in the NT. There is the Antichrist himself, and there are the many antichrists who exist in the present age, preceding his coming. They are all similar, in my view. Actually you were reading my reply to Journey man but I did respond to you too |
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Post by foxjj on Oct 29, 2019 23:04:48 GMT
This is an interesting discussion. Although we may have differing thoughts on the subject we discuss with respect for one another.
My understanding of antichrist is that we firstly must remember that anti means opposing or against. Consequently, the belief that antichrist is meant in Daniel 7 cannot be accurate because Daniel was writing prophecy to the Jewish people many decades before Jesus The Christ was born. The beast that Daniel was referring to in chapter 7 was Antiochus Epiphanes who opposed God and His people by trying to wipe out the Jewish religion. He therefore would have been antiGod not antichrist.
As for the writings of John, he is obviously implying that it is the spirit of antichrist of which has directed numerous powerful non believers throughout history and will in the future to stand against the teachings of Christ Jesus. These people can be religious or political as we have seen, and will continue to see.
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Post by journeyman on Nov 3, 2019 13:46:58 GMT
I'm not sure antichrist John speaks of in his letters doesn't include the beasts he tells about in Revelation. Concerning Jesus, a Christian recently said to me, "He is a king without a Kingdom UNTIL he takes it back with military might." That's not true, but many within the church believe this. The Bible does speak of Messiah as the leader of the world. I see no reason why the beast antichrist doesn't become a political leader who is also the leader of the false church, They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. Jn.16:2 |
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Post by foxjj on Nov 3, 2019 16:03:40 GMT
The definition of a kingdom is a realm or domain. Consequently, a kingdom is normally considered as a country, or a people under a king’s rule or influence. This world has two spiritual kingdoms by which people are influenced, making them - knowingly or, unknowingly - members of the kingdom by which they are most influenced. According to Scripture, we were all under the kingdom of darkness before we became Christians as Paul explained in Colossians 1:13-14: “He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.”
This is a very dramatic passage, describing the actions of our Heavenly Father in the lives of believers. It is by God’s Sovereign design that we have been qualified to share in the kingdom of light; which is The Kingdom of God. The qualification for entry into The Kingdom is to be born again, as Jesus proclaimed while speaking to Nicodemus in John 3:3: “Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Scripture describes the coming of Jesus into our world in this way: “In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.” (John 1:4-5) Here we have a reference to the two spiritual kingdoms. The one keeps people in darkness concerning their spiritual need. In contrast, the other is The Light of God’s Truth. The Kingdom of God brings a light onto our path of life when we enter by way of the Blood of Jesus. He is The One who claimed: “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”(John 14:6)
It is through the act of Redemption that God in His mercy, delivers us from the kingdom of darkness. Redemption carries the meaning of deliverance and freedom by a payment or ransom. Our Heavenly Father accomplished this act of redemption through the sacrificial death of Jesus upon the cross. All of us who have accepted the sacrifice of Jesus on our behalf, have received forgiveness of our sin - becoming born again - thereby becoming part of The Kingdom of God.
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Post by mfox on Nov 3, 2019 16:39:21 GMT
I'm not sure antichrist John speaks of in his letters doesn't include the beasts he tells about in Revelation. Concerning Jesus, a Christian recently said to me, "He is a king without a Kingdom UNTIL he takes it back with military might." That's not true, but many within the church believe this. The Bible does speak of Messiah as the leader of the world. I see no reason why the beast antichrist doesn't become a political leader who is also the leader of the false church, They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. Jn.16:2 But the antichrist John speaks of has a completely different personality and purpose of the sea beast in revelation. The antichrist is more like the false prophet |
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Post by journeyman on Nov 4, 2019 6:34:27 GMT
Hey Marty.
Well, the sea beast wants to be worshipped and the false prophet wants the sea beast to be worshipped. What's the difference?
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Post by mfox on Nov 4, 2019 13:34:05 GMT
Hey Marty. Well, the sea beast wants to be worshipped and the false prophet wants the sea beast to be worshipped. What's the difference? What I’m saying is that the sea beast and the land beast are different and the antichrist which John speaks of is more like the land beast that the sea beast |
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Post by journeyman on Nov 4, 2019 13:49:26 GMT
Well, however different they are, they all go to the same place in the end. It's like the embodiment of Satan on earth.
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Post by mfox on Nov 4, 2019 14:01:37 GMT
Well, however different they are, they all go to the same place in the end. It's like the embodiment of Satan on earth. Yes Of course they are they work together for the same purpose I see them as mostly Rome and apostate Israel |
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Post by journeyman on Nov 4, 2019 15:28:20 GMT
I don't see any difference between apostate Israel and the apostate church. Like the OT and NT saints are one body in Christ, the apostates are one body in the devil.
I think the seven headed beast is the same as Daniel's vision, except John sees them all in one body.
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Post by journeyman on Nov 4, 2019 16:37:06 GMT
Marty,
You just gave me an idea that might solve something that has always puzzled me.
The beasts kingdom hates Babylon and destroys her. Why would Satan want to destroy an entity that killed the prophets of God? I would think the devil would be happy about that. But what if Babylon represents apostate Israel and the false prophet in Rev represents the apostate church? Just an idea. Maybe way off.
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Post by mfox on Nov 4, 2019 19:16:34 GMT
Marty, You just gave me an idea that might solve something that has always puzzled me. The beasts kingdom hates Babylon and destroys her. Why would Satan want to destroy an entity that killed the prophets of God? I would think the devil would be happy about that. But what if Babylon represents apostate Israel and the false prophet in Rev represents the apostate church? Just an idea. Maybe way off. I see the false prophet as apostate Israel. The beast as Rome and Babylon the great as Jerusalem all three in the first century Rome destroyed Jerusalem for Gods purpose just like in the verse below Revelation 17:16-17 . 16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled. |
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Post by journeyman on Nov 4, 2019 20:53:09 GMT
Ok. I see a couple problem with that interpretation. One is, apostate Israel didn't encourage the world to worship Rome, at least not outwardly.
The second is, it appears once Babylon is destroyed, it never rises again. The worldly Jerusalem still exists. How do you see these?
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Post by mfox on Nov 4, 2019 22:26:55 GMT
Ok. I see a couple problem with that interpretation. One is, apostate Israel didn't encourage the world to worship Rome, at least not outwardly. The second is, it appears once Babylon is destroyed, it never rises again. The worldly Jerusalem still exists. How do you see these? Many times in the bible the world isn't the whole world but the pharrasies did have the people shout we have no king but Cesar so they turned the Jews away from God to Rome When Jesus said Matthew 23:37 37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. He wasn't talking about literal buildings when He said Jerusalem Jerusalem it was the leadership of Israel which was destroyed and has never been again. So yes there is a city but not the Jerusalem of the first century |
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