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Post by princess on Sept 8, 2022 16:28:32 GMT
So pastors are commanded to wash other men's wives and children in the Word?
Your words below exhibits nothing but serpent-like behavior:
"And that's why you don't recognize the truth in what I say. You're bent on using submission to your husband as an excuse to let him carry the responsibility of hearing the Lord. But you need to do that as an individual so that he doesn't lead you down the wrong path"
Nah...you obviously are not the problem.
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Post by randy on Sept 10, 2022 6:41:38 GMT
So pastors are commanded to wash other men's wives and children in the Word? Your words below exhibits nothing but serpent-like behavior: "And that's why you don't recognize the truth in what I say. You're bent on using submission to your husband as an excuse to let him carry the responsibility of hearing the Lord. But you need to do that as an individual so that he doesn't lead you down the wrong path" Nah...you obviously are not the problem. Well, princess, I could be wrong. Since you wouldn't answer the question, I assumed you were defending obedience to husbands "no matter what?" To sin is wrong--that's all I'm saying. You can't cover up sinning by saying, "The devil made me do it!"
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Post by princess on Sept 14, 2022 4:37:42 GMT
Marty,
Do you remember around a year or so ago nobody on this website was able to define marriage or even distinguish it from cohabitation? Could the reason be that marriage was replaced with cohabitation?
Does God give boyfriends authority over girlfriends or mistresses? Nope.
The fall is about a couple...right? The deceiver knew where to hit...marriage.
Do the responses somehow seem "off" marty?
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Post by randy on Sept 15, 2022 7:33:02 GMT
Marty, Do you remember around a year or so ago nobody on this website was able to define marriage or even distinguish it from cohabitation? Could the reason be that marriage was replaced with cohabitation? Does God give boyfriends authority over girlfriends or mistresses? Nope. The fall is about a couple...right? The deceiver knew where to hit...marriage. Do the responses somehow seem "off" marty? The question of marriage had several different answers. "Cohabitation" in the pagan world refers to a temporary relationship as if in marriage. "Cohabitation," therefore, refers to a pagan practice. The real question is: what constitutes "marriage" in the eyes of the State or in the eyes of God? Both are important questions because the Christian is supposed to be respectful of State rules, if possible. Presently, many States do have a definition for marriage, but it is largely neutral with respect to religion. Marriage and Co-habitation are virtually interchangeable, since sometimes live-in partners may be sued after separation, and there is no real attempt to define Co-habitation as a religious kind of "marriage," referring to it at times as "Common Law Marriage. My fallback position was and is that a *vow before God* is what makes the marriage, whether the State recognizes it as such or not. But it's best if a couple can be married both before God and in the eyes of the State. It makes law governing marriages much more manageable. Palimony lawsuits could be a little confusing, since agreements made are not always clear as to intent.
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Post by princess on Sept 15, 2022 13:50:25 GMT
The question of marriage has only one answer but cohabitation has many answers because it can mean whatever a person wants it to mean. Marriage is rooted in objective reality while sexual sin is rooted in subjective reality.
I am pretty certain most people reading this were not virgins on the day of their ceremony. Please don't answer because I am not trying to pry and this is none of my business but ask yourselves this question: What relational change was required or took place from non marriage to marriage?
The acceptance of transgenderism is learned from children who witnessed parents who refused to love and accept each other as men and women but as persons...
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Post by Naama on Sept 16, 2022 15:46:05 GMT
If no relational change takes place from marriage to non marriage then what we define as marriage is not marriage but cohabitation.
Premarital sex and adultery follows people into marriage and when the numbers reach critical mass then marriage turns into cohabitation with or without a piece of paper.
This is where we are at now.
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Post by randy on Sept 18, 2022 2:55:15 GMT
If no relational change takes place from marriage to non marriage then what we define as marriage is not marriage but cohabitation. Premarital sex and adultery follows people into marriage and when the numbers reach critical mass then marriage turns into cohabitation with or without a piece of paper. This is where we are at now. I think what you mean is that God created marriage, and when people do not follow God's rules of marriage, the marriage suffers and becomes something less than marriage, perhaps even just a form of co-habitation with loose commitment? If so, I agree. Our former Christian societies have become so non-Christian in their sense of what marriage is that it is nothing more than a legal contract that can be broken and then settled in court. Love is no deeper than, "If you cross this line, I'm done." So, it is a battle of wills, as to whether each person will fully serve the other, particularly when wills are crossed. Today, marriage is on the chopping block, just like unborn babies' lives, traditional marriage, and belief in God or Christ. Who knows what will be the next "human right?"
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Post by princess on Sept 18, 2022 16:10:33 GMT
What I am saying is marriage does not currently exist. Same sex marriage never destroyed marriage because marriage was destroyed and incrementally replaced with cohabitation after the second world war. In other words, opposite sex cohabitation made room for same sex cohabitation.
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Post by randy on Sept 18, 2022 16:17:11 GMT
What I am saying is marriage does not currently exist. Same sex marriage never destroyed marriage because marriage was destroyed and incrementally replaced with cohabitation after the second world war. Opposite sex cohabitation allowed for same sex cohabitation. That's absurd. Why would God revoke marriage for the genuine Christian? Or, am I misunderstanding you? Or, are you only speaking of State-sponsored marriage, which is, as I said, seriously compromised? I believe that even with the weak form of "marriage" recognized by the State God can recognize true spiritual marriage between couples who make their vows before Him.
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Post by princess on Sept 18, 2022 16:51:54 GMT
Please don't misunderstand this: Marriage was destroyed and replaced with cohabitation.
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Post by princess on Sept 18, 2022 17:41:20 GMT
Marty,
I am dropping gentle firecrackers in hopes that something will catch instead of dropping a 100 megaton bomb.
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Post by randy on Sept 18, 2022 19:16:07 GMT
Heb 13.4 Marriage should be honored by all.
Corrupt society and pagan states may "blow up" marriage. But God does not. He invented it.
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Post by princess on Sept 19, 2022 4:50:12 GMT
God doesn't revoke marriage because people do. God would need to revoke the meaning of the male/female body he created in order to revoke marriage. Change can come here right now
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Post by randy on Sept 19, 2022 16:07:13 GMT
God doesn't revoke marriage because people do. God would need to revoke the meaning of the male/female body he created in order to revoke marriage. Change can come here right now I very much agree that God didn't revoke marriage--that was the point I was trying to make. The statement made was that marriage doesn't exist anymore. I don't believe that's true at all! I do believe that the State has corrupted its definition of marriage, by sanctioning same-sex marriage. The secular State, as it exists here in the US, doesn't take a stand, anymore, on the morality of marriage vs. cohabitation. It is perfectly fine with the State for a couple to cohabit, and then allow for palimony lawsuits, which is pretty much an acknowledgment that cohabitation is a form of "marriage." No matter how we wish to word this, I think our fallen societies have become godless and non-Christian. And the laws, governing things like marriage and sexuality, reflect that. That being said, God still recognizes marriage when a couple make mutual vows in this regard. That's the only point I'm focused on.
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Post by princess on Sept 21, 2022 14:13:37 GMT
God would have to revoke the meaning of the male/female body in order to revoke marriage which is never going to happen. However, a distorted gospel is going to offer the same gospel as the serpent in the garden.
Nope! The state never corrupted marriage by sanctioning same sex marriage because marriage was already corrupted to cohabitation to make room for same sex cohabitation with or without a piece of paper or ceremony.
Once again ask yourselves what relational change is required to take place from non marriage to marriage? Premarital sex to marriage? Cohabitation to marriage? Take away the ceremony and piece of paper people self righteously hide behind and you expose the sin. I would be guilty of promoting sin when the piece of paper DID represent and upheld marriage but this is no longer reality.
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Post by randy on Sept 22, 2022 6:44:06 GMT
God would have to revoke the meaning of the male/female body in order to revoke marriage which is never going to happen. However, a distorted gospel is going to offer the same gospel as the serpent in the garden. Nope! The state never corrupted marriage by sanctioning same sex marriage because marriage was already corrupted to cohabitation to make room for same sex cohabitation with or without a piece of paper or ceremony. Once again ask yourselves what relational change is required to take place from non marriage to marriage? Premarital sex to marriage? Cohabitation to marriage? Take away the ceremony and piece of paper people self righteously hide behind and you expose the sin. I would be guilty of promoting sin when the piece of paper DID represent and upheld marriage but this is no longer reality. I don't care to prolong any animosity, but I do find the subject interesting. So at the risk of taking a different position than you I'll just offer up, once again, what I think about "marriage." Marriage is a divine institution, but faith sees marriage as an alignment with God's word whereas non-Christians view it differently, based on their own beliefs. So since God is not just God of the Church, but also of the whole world, He does speak to all of mankind and their consciences, even though He knows they won't completely understand. He wants us all to do right, and so He encourages people who want to cohabit with each other to deal with one another honestly and faithfully, without cheating. This is marriage, whether the non-Christian knows it or not, whether it is "co-habitation" or not. God views a sexual relationship as a kind of "marriage," or as an act of prostitution, depending on the level of commitment. I don't believe there's any such thing as a partial commitment, where you use someone sexually, really love them, and then write it off as a non-commitment when things get tough. I don't think God sees that as anything but a kind of "divorce." What is the difference between marriage and co-habitation? The only real difference is the paperwork. Before God, a couple committing themselves to each other is a form of marriage. They are held accountable, by God, to be faithful to their commitments. If not, they are no better than divorcees or worse, fornicators. In the Christian world we recognize these things. But in the non-Christian world, people may like to think they can "skate" when things get bad, claiming they never had a "real" commitment. But God isn't fooled. He holds people accountable for their promises and breaches of trust. He is the God who oversees agreements, and will judge those who act wickedly in this regard.
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Post by princess on Sept 23, 2022 15:30:39 GMT
I take all the risk taking a different position because this makes me a target of anger and frustration. This is ok! The reason I don't get mad or frustrated is simple: I don't want to be anyone's authority or guru other than to my children! Can you see the confusion in your post? Do you understand you typed lots of words but really said nothing at all? Let go Randy! Let God be the Creator and embrace your position as creature. Reality is staring you in the face!
God only recognizes marriage and therefore only gives authority to husband's not boyfriends. A man has no authority in a non marital sexual relationship which really gives two options
1. A sick variation of 50 shades of kink. 2. Most people playing biblical house recognize the man has no authority and temper their cognitive dissonance by calling it "spiritual" authority.
If God considers illicit relationships sorta valid then girlfriends or mistresses could convert and open boyfriends eyes to Jesus Christ through their mildness and obedience towards them? Nope! They would make fools of themselves...revert to option 1.
Only a converted woman can fear disobeying her non believing husband and open his eyes to Jesus Christ because she fears Jesus Christ who is the source of his authority because He created reality. Maybe he tests her resolve but she can take it because her Master died on the symbol of roman authority and rose again!
This is why the law of Moses is insufficient!
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Post by randy on Sept 24, 2022 5:26:41 GMT
all the risk taking a different position because this makes me a target of anger and frust I takeration. This is ok! The reason I don't get mad or frustrated is simple: I don't want to be anyone's authority or guru other than to my children! Can you see the confusion in your post? Do you understand you typed lots of words but really said nothing at all? Let go Randy! Let God be the Creator and embrace your position as creature. Reality is staring you in the face! God only recognizes marriage and therefore only gives authority to husband's not boyfriends. A man has no authority in a non marital sexual relationship which really gives two options 1. A sick variation of 50 shades of kink. 2. Most people playing biblical house recognize the man has no authority and temper their cognitive dissonance by calling it "spiritual" authority. If God considers illicit relationships sorta valid then girlfriends or mistresses could convert and open boyfriends eyes to Jesus Christ through their mildness and obedience towards them? Nope! They would make fools of themselves...revert to option 1. Only a converted woman can fear disobeying her non believing husband and open his eyes to Jesus Christ because she fears Jesus Christ who is the source of his authority because He created reality. Maybe he tests her resolve but she can take it because her Master died on the symbol of roman authority and rose again! This is why the law of Moses is insufficient! There is a difference between legitimizing conscientious choices in the non-Christian world and legitimizing non-Christianity! This seems to be the assumption you're making, that anything the pagan does can have no moral character. I certainly wouldn't expect a faithful husband or wife in a marriage to be evangelizing one another if they weren't Christians! I'm only saying that God does speak to the human conscience generally, and does not discriminate between the Christian and the pagan in telling them what they should be doing. But God understands that the non-Christian has less light than the Christian, and takes that into consideration when He speaks to their conscience. God, I believe, informs all people that when a couple is in a sexual relationship, there is a certain responsibility and a certain agreement that should be honored. They don't have to be Christian to recognize that. And if they're not Christians, God would not expect them to act like Christians, evangelizing their spouses and others!
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Post by princess on Sept 26, 2022 3:22:20 GMT
I never said anything non believers do has no moral character. These are your words, not mine. For example, Nazi's killed many innocent people but most of them probably would jump in a lake to save someone from drowning, give to charity and love their families. I don't know what your point is here?
I will predict how this plays out. Every time I offer up an aspect of objective reality that defines and supports marriage you are going to spiritualize meaning away.
Mmmm...maybe just maybe transgenderism is the logical outcome?
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Post by randy on Sept 26, 2022 6:32:45 GMT
I never said anything non believers do has no moral character. These are your words, not mine. For example, Nazi's killed many innocent people but most of them probably would jump in a lake to save someone from drowning, give to charity and love their families. I don't know what your point is here? I will predict how this plays out. Every time I offer up an aspect of objective reality that defines and supports marriage you are going to spiritualize meaning away. Mmmm...maybe just maybe transgenderism is the logical outcome? I don't at all think Nazis have good moral character. It's shameful if you think that! I don't really think you believe that? What I meant was you were claiming marriage in the non-Christian or secular world doesn't exist because it is a corrupt form of "living together." At least, that's how I took what you said. Why do you accuse me of ignoring your "objective reality" and trying to "spiritualize things," to make transgenderism a logical outcome? I don't find your view of marriage in the secular state to be an "objective reality." On the contrary, I see the State still acknowledging marriage, even if it is a corrupted form of "marriage." As such, the objective reality I see is that marriage, whether State-acknowledged or not, exists in secular states, whether it is called marriage or cohabitation. God holds couples responsible, whatever their religion, for their moral duty regarding intimate relations with the opposite sex. As I said, from God's perspective, it is either a form of prostitution or a sacred commitment, a covenant. And that is how I define "marriage," and how I think God defines "marriage." I don't think God is hung up on what form of government we live under, and on how governments define marriage. What matters is how God views our sacred commitments to one another as we live in intimate relations with our partners.
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