|
Post by Naama on Jan 30, 2021 6:01:28 GMT
Can you explain the observable functional difference between a christian and non christian marriage?
|
|
|
Post by randy on Jan 30, 2021 20:42:30 GMT
Can you explain the observable functional difference between a christian and non christian marriage? It's the same difference you would see between a practicing Christian and a non-practicing Christian. If Christianity doesn't make any difference in a person's life, or in the life of a marriage, then what's it worth?
But when a person lacks knowledge about spiritual things, not living in them, much less can be expected. Not as much wisdom. No sense of God's love being an alternative to our own selfish ways. When a person isn't walking in God's love, he/she doesn't know what that is. The sense of "love" is vague. A wonderful song done a long, long time ago tells it all. Dionne Warwick's "Alfie." www.last.fm/music/Dionne+Warwick/_/Alfie
|
|
|
Post by Naama on Jan 31, 2021 16:03:18 GMT
basically, what you are saying is you cannot explain it?
|
|
|
Post by randy on Feb 1, 2021 3:20:10 GMT
basically, what you are saying is you cannot explain it? I can explain it to those interested in spiritual things. To the unspiritual, it makes no sense.
2 Cor 2.6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 However, as it is written:
“What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived”— the things God has prepared for those who love him— 10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16 for,
“Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?”
But we have the mind of Christ.
|
|
|
Post by princess on Feb 1, 2021 3:59:51 GMT
Paul says,
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the [j]men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, [l]sexual immorality, wickedness, [m]covetousness, [n]maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 [o]undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
|
|
|
Post by randy on Feb 2, 2021 5:29:37 GMT
Yes princess. When Man departs from his essential relationship with God, he lives by the "flesh." That is, he goes his own way, without regard for God's Spirit, character, and will. He does what he thinks is right, and not what God thinks is right.
One result of this for some is homosexuality. Man does not regard the gender distinctions that God made, both men and women practicing homosexuality without shame. Their consciences are seared by the practice of ignoring God's word to their conscience.
Not all who abandon partnership with God become homosexuals, nor do all who live by the "flesh" deny gender distinctions. But when they abandon the presence of God in their lives, and ignore God's word to their conscience, they exhibit carnal attributes, such as "unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, and maliciousness."
There may be degrees of godliness and carnality, depending on how much a person decides to follow God or his/her own way. When Man chose the knowledge of good and evil, it was a choice by the person to decide for himself when to do good and when to do evil, when to follow God and when to do things his/her own way.
So there are varying degrees of good and bad, depending on the choices a person makes. However, Salvation is predicated on the choice for Christ, who died to the flesh on our behalf so that we may live by his Spirit. We don't have to be perfect, but we have to make a choice only for the good, which is Christ.
Christians should not be overcome by the works of the flesh, even though some of those things will characterize us sometimes. But the worst forms of sin should not be in the life of the established Christian, who by practice and experience has learned not to indulge the carnal nature to any great extent.
|
|
|
Post by Naama on Feb 3, 2021 16:58:13 GMT
The meaning of marriage is universal because the meaning of the male female body is universal. So whether a christian or non christian abides by this the consequences are universal. The consequences of polygamy are universal because if 20 percent of the men have 80 percent of the woman them 80 percent of the men cannot participate in society. Same goes for promiscuity including serial monogamy. A man's plumage is his ability to provide and a woman's plumage attracts a man's provision. When this relationship is over then a society implodes.
|
|
|
Post by Naama on Feb 3, 2021 17:06:19 GMT
The acceptance of opposite sex sodomy led to the acceptance of same sex sodomy.
The acceptance of opposite sex ceremonial cohabitation led to the acceptance of opposite sex ceremonial cohabitation.
Let me ask you this randy, did your wife quit her job and become your dependent on the day of your wedding?
|
|
|
Post by Naama on Feb 3, 2021 17:10:13 GMT
What usually happens is people condemn same sex sodomy by the physical body but condone their own sin by going into non physical spiritual language.
|
|
|
Post by randy on Feb 3, 2021 23:39:15 GMT
The meaning of marriage is universal because the meaning of the male female body is universal. So whether a christian or non christian abides by this the consequences are universal. The consequences of polygamy are universal because if 20 percent of the men have 80 percent of the woman them 80 percent of the men cannot participate in society. Same goes for promiscuity including serial monogamy. A man's plumage is his ability to provide and a woman's plumage attracts a man's provision. When this relationship is over then a society implodes. It is a universal truth that there are male/female gender distinctions, yes. And rejecting these gender distinctions has absolute consequences, yes. But gender distinctions is only one part of many universal truths, which if ignored leads to trouble for Mankind. For example, it is also universally true that final atonement comes only through Christ. The consequences of rejecting this truth is that we absolutely cannot have eternal atonement by choosing to reject following Christ as the Way. It is equally true that Stealing and Murder are evils that universally lead to death. Rejecting this truth has absolute consequences. To continue stealing and murdering, and at the same time rejecting Christ as the Way, leads to Eternal Death. You see, to make the entire world about male and female genders tells only a portion of the story as if the whole story revolves around gender distinctions. This isn't true. It's important, but it's equally true that Stealing and Murdering is wrong. It can relate to other things, such as gender distinctions, perhaps. But I think that would confuse things. Put gender distinctions in one category, as a part of a whole list of universal truths that we must recognize, without which we suffer absolute consequences. Otherwise, we're making the whole world about gender distinctions. And that certainly isn't true.
|
|
|
Post by randy on Feb 3, 2021 23:42:43 GMT
The acceptance of opposite sex sodomy led to the acceptance of same sex sodomy. The acceptance of opposite sex ceremonial cohabitation led to the acceptance of opposite sex ceremonial cohabitation. Let me ask you this randy, did your wife quit her job and become your dependent on the day of your wedding? No, we are equals. What my wife and I are has nothing to do, as far as I know, with any points you've made. As they say, with sin, one thing leads to another. Illegal marijuana use may lead to illegal heroin use. A little sin may lead to a big sin. Perhaps that's what you're trying to say?
|
|
|
Post by randy on Feb 3, 2021 23:45:21 GMT
What usually happens is people condemn same sex sodomy by the physical body but condone their own sin by going into non physical spiritual language. I don't know what's wrong with "non physical spiritual language?"
|
|
|
Post by Naama on Feb 4, 2021 1:48:29 GMT
What you did randy was create a strawman argument. I never said claimed gender distinctions defined martiage and everything in life, you did. You then answered your strawman saying everything is not about gender distinctions.
|
|
|
Post by randy on Feb 4, 2021 6:13:24 GMT
What you did randy was create a strawman argument. I never said claimed gender distinctions defined martiage and everything in life, you did. You then answered your strawman saying everything is not about gender distinctions. That's right. So what do you mean by "non physical spiritual language?" I can determine that your emphasis on bodies and genders seems to indicate that is at the core of your belief system. If not, then you should feel obliged to explain, particularly when your language is so strange. Where do you get that from?
|
|
|
Post by Naama on Feb 4, 2021 17:06:26 GMT
Nothing wrong with spiritual language because our soul is a part of being created as a unity of mind, soul and body.
The problem is using spiritual language to escape physical reality.
|
|
|
Post by Naama on Feb 4, 2021 17:28:13 GMT
Claiming your relationship is equal has everything to do the conversation because in order to be equal you must deny what makes men and women unequal.
The only way men and women can be equal in a sexual relationship is from the perspective of being soulmates or persons. Equality is always sexist because its defined by maleness. Therefore personhood is much different from womanhood. What validates a woman threatens her as a person. In order to safeguard herself from threats to her personhood requires career, birth control and abortion.
I just described the fall
|
|
|
Post by Naama on Feb 4, 2021 18:07:26 GMT
Martin Luther was very confused. He created faith alone as mental function alone to escape the misuse of authority wielded by the catholic church.
Then he brings the body back into faith whenever he condemns sexual sin.
|
|
|
Post by randy on Feb 5, 2021 0:40:41 GMT
Martin Luther was very confused. He created faith alone as mental function alone to escape the misuse of authority wielded by the catholic church. Then he brings the body back into faith whenever he condemns sexual sin. Despite the flaws in his theology, his central burden was profound and genuinely spiritual. Evangelicalism derives from him. If you see love driving Christians to bring the Gospel message to others, that is what Luther was in pursuit of. He felt the Catholic Church was keeping the truth from the masses.
His sense of "faith," therefore, was an evangelical faith, and not a dead, intellectual faith. I know what you mean by his "intellectual" sense of faith, which indeed falls short in my book, in terms of its description and range. But faith is indeed the basis of entering into a true Covenant with God, because any relationship with God requires our dependency on God to forgive us of our sins.
That's what faith does--it relies on God's mercy to forgive us, as opposed to relying on works to bless us. The works of the Law blessed Israel. But it couldn't bring eternal forgiveness to Israel because of their record of sin, the Sin Nature. Trusting in God to forgive us reached fruition when Christ came and displayed the full range of God's mercy to us.
|
|
|
Post by randy on Feb 5, 2021 0:42:55 GMT
Nothing wrong with spiritual language because our soul is a part of being created as a unity of mind, soul and body. The problem is using spiritual language to escape physical reality. I agree with you that spiritual language is part of our spiritual heritage. We were created spiritual beings, and we have to describe that experience using spiritual language.
Hindus try to escape physical bondages through "spiritual exercises." I don't think they're "spiritual" in the Christian sense. And I don't think they thereby escape from physical addictions--they just avoid them, or divert their energies elsewhere.
I don't know who you think is using spiritual language to escape physical reality?
|
|
|
Post by randy on Feb 5, 2021 0:47:05 GMT
Claiming your relationship is equal has everything to do the conversation because in order to be equal you must deny what makes men and women unequal. The only way men and women can be equal in a sexual relationship is from the perspective of being soulmates or persons. Equality is always sexist because its defined by maleness. Therefore personhood is much different from womanhood. What validates a woman threatens her as a person. In order to safeguard herself from threats to her personhood requires career, birth control and abortion. I just described the fall Men and Women are equal in the Kingdom of God. And so, as Christians males and females have different roles, which you might call "unequal," but they depict a *spiritual equality* because service to the Lord in any form, male or female, is equally service to the Lord.
The distinctions of male and female roles are clearly different, and yet compatible. They were created to work as a whole. So it would be a mistake to ignore the differences, and fail to recognize them. Knowing what tools are there helps to make the relationship work to bring glory to God through the things they do together.
I agree that career, birth control, and abortion are women seeking to escape what they perceive are differences that bring them oppression. But the answer is to resolve the problems, and not to escape the differences. Spiritual redemption is the answer, which people of this world reject, because it takes away their freedom to make choices apart from God. God will not let them indulge their independent nature, which God calls "sin."
|
|