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Post by mfox on May 3, 2018 3:44:25 GMT
Many Christians believe that dinosaurs could of lived and died in a time called the gap theory before Adam was created. If so would this be biblical and did Adam and Eve walk with dinosaurs?
If Adam and Eve lived on the earth with dinosaurs would they be in danger of being eaten by the dinosaurs after they were banished from the garden of Eden? I think the verses below gives us this answer.
Genesis 9:1-3 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. 2 The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands. 3 Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.
It is stated above that that animals and humans dwelled peacefully together and meat wasn't eaten until the time of the flood.
If dinosaurs lived and died before Adam's time then that would mean that death happened before Adam's time would that be biblical?
Genesis 1:31 31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
God states in the verse above that everything He had made was good on the sixth day would it be good if death had occurred already?
Could there be death before sin?
Romans 5:12 12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
Paul states in the verse above that death entered the world through one mans sin Adam thus there couldn't of been death before Adam sinned so dinosaurs couldn't of lived and died before Adams time.
If dinosaurs lived and died before Adam would that discredit the gospel?
Jesus stated below that man and women were at the beginning of creation
Mark 10:6-7 6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female. 7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,
If dinosaurs lived before Adam and Eve then that would make Jesus out to be a liar and not without sin so how could Jesus atone for our sin?
Romans 6:23 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Paul states in the verse above that the wages of sin is death but Gods gift Jesus "who is the good news also known as the gospel" gave us eternal life. Thus if dinosaurs died before sin enter the world through Adam then the gospel would be void.
1 Corinthians 15:21-22 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. Again Paul above states that death came through one man Adam.
The bible is very clear that death started with Adams sin and Jesus atoned for that sin for all of mankind. The bible clearly backs the claim and holds its credibility that dinosaurs lived and died during and after but not before the days of Adam.
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Post by foxjj on May 4, 2018 4:08:54 GMT
Very well put
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Post by BlueSky on May 4, 2018 17:20:06 GMT
I agree. Nice to be in agreement with you guys! Living fossils, dinosaur legends, dinosaur artifacts and carvings from antiquity all support a literal reading of genesis and that mankind indeed did walk with the so called “dinosaurs”. All animals ( this includes dinosurs ) were created on day 6, that makes man and “dinosaur” alive at the same time, and this is exactly what the evidence shows. We have much evidence that supports the Word Of God. creation.com/adam-and-the-animals-day-6
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Post by mfox on May 5, 2018 16:34:09 GMT
We sure do agree a lot
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Post by ted on Jul 30, 2018 21:11:03 GMT
Hello all, Donquixote mentioned your fine forum and I would like to add my first 2 cents in this discussion. I have a slightly different take. One that I've used on many occasion. The answer is simple, God only knows. As creator, of course He would know. Being His creation, I would only know if God decided that He should reveal the answer to me. Yet my not knowing the answer is irrelevant to my living according to God's word. God through Jesus Christ has showed us the path to salvation. It is my attachment to this world and not to God which drives the interest in such trivialities. It is good to ponder our world, yet it is enough to be content and say, I do not know. For the purpose is to come to know God and abide in Him. Such questions defocus our energies away from that calling and neither profit us even if man could say with absolute surety the answer.
I have found this a useful tool and supported by Titus 3:9 "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain."
and Timothy 2:22-24
"…22 Flee from youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But reject foolish and ignorant speculation, for you know that it breeds quarreling. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not be quarrelsome, but he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, and forbearing.…"
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Post by foxjj on Jul 30, 2018 23:31:31 GMT
Well said brother. I am amazed how easily some get embroidered in unanswerable questions. As you so rightly stated they can defocus from what is profitable.
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Post by mfox on Jul 31, 2018 2:59:01 GMT
Hello all, Donquixote mentioned your fine forum and I would like to add my first 2 cents in this discussion. I have a slightly different take. One that I've used on many occasion. The answer is simple, God only knows. As creator, of course He would know. Being His creation, I would only know if God decided that He should reveal the answer to me. Yet my not knowing the answer is irrelevant to my living according to God's word. God through Jesus Christ has showed us the path to salvation. It is my attachment to this world and not to God which drives the interest in such trivialities. It is good to ponder our world, yet it is enough to be content and say, I do not know. For the purpose is to come to know God and abide in Him. Such questions defocus our energies away from that calling and neither profit us even if man could say with absolute surety the answer. I have found this a useful tool and supported by Titus 3:9 "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain." and Timothy 2:22-24 "…22 Flee from youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But reject foolish and ignorant speculation, for you know that it breeds quarreling. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not be quarrelsome, but he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, and forbearing.…" Thanks for your input and welcome to the forum but I don't think that this was a foolish post. My purpose of the post is below
"If dinosaurs lived and died before Adam would that discredit the gospel?"
The work I put into this study was rewarding and I was proving with scripture that scripture proves scripture to be true. People who try to discredit the bible and prove God to be false ask these types of questions and we need to be equipped with the answers.
I think that I was doing what Timothy said which is rejecting foolish speculation but to reject it you also need to counter it and not avoid it.
What you stated is true but we also need to defend the bible as not all conversations are with believers
Thanks
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Post by foxjj on Jul 31, 2018 3:24:44 GMT
Just as a clarification, I was not referring to Marty’s post in my comments, as I had concurred with his post. However there are many who chew over and nitpick unclear scripture making them their life’s work, constantly arguing.
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Post by BlueSky on Jul 31, 2018 14:18:03 GMT
Hello all, Donquixote mentioned your fine forum and I would like to add my first 2 cents in this discussion. I have a slightly different take. One that I've used on many occasion. The answer is simple, God only knows. As creator, of course He would know. Being His creation, I would only know if God decided that He should reveal the answer to me. Yet my not knowing the answer is irrelevant to my living according to God's word. God through Jesus Christ has showed us the path to salvation. It is my attachment to this world and not to God which drives the interest in such trivialities. It is good to ponder our world, yet it is enough to be content and say, I do not know. For the purpose is to come to know God and abide in Him. Such questions defocus our energies away from that calling and neither profit us even if man could say with absolute surety the answer. I have found this a useful tool and supported by Titus 3:9 "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain." and Timothy 2:22-24 "…22 Flee from youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But reject foolish and ignorant speculation, for you know that it breeds quarreling. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not be quarrelsome, but he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, and forbearing.…" Hi Ted, welcome to Areopagus. You seem familiar to me somehow, just can’t remember tho. Have we met before? I wholeheartedly agree with you gents that some things are best left in that camp. God only knows. No issue there. However, this I don’t feel this particular issue is necessarily one of those issues that the above verses speak of. This issue need not be quarrelsome and is most definitely not foolish discussion, no, far from it. Allow me to briefly explain. We can talk about this in further detail if you like. The OP question is a good one and needs an answer from a Christians perspective imo [ especially in today’s saturated world of secular ideas about mans early beginnings ] ‘Dinosaurs’ as we call them today, must fit somehow into Bible and it’s over all narrative, after all, they were ( are still are ) real creatures who live(d) and died ( supposedly long ago ) Consequently, they pose some interesting issues for the Christain when examined though to their logical conclusions. Amazingly, the Bibles ( young ) explanation of the early earths timeline fits perfectly with science today and the so called ‘dinosaurs’ ( what they are ) fit right in like a glove. That’s the beautiful thing about it, God has left us many clues to follow to understand our early beginnings from a Biblical centred Worldview. The actual evidence supports the Bibles version of history at every turn. I feel strongly that this issue [ who and what the ‘dinosaurs’ are and how they fit into the Biblical narrative ] are not what Titus 3:9, or Timothy 2 are describing in context. This issue, when fully flushed and examined [when using the God given talents (i.e logic reason ) bears imo, some incredible fruit and reveals an incredible narrative that gives the Christain powerful reasons to believe that we can trust the Bible in everything it says. If anyone chooses to not examine this evidence [ in detail as I have done fro 20 years ] and chooses to just leave it in ‘God hands’, that’s totally ok too, but it’s far from a foolish endeavour to jump right in and see want we can see... Blessings Ted. Bluesky
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Post by ted on Jul 31, 2018 18:51:41 GMT
Thank you for the welcomes.
I feel you all received my point well. I will succinctly restate it for clarity: Questions which devolve to argumentive/divisive nature are not worth while, yet looking for questions with a open mind fully acknowledging our own ignorance is the proper path.
I surely have not read enough scripture (especially of the Old Testament) to be able say anything on the subject with any certainty. It is quite clear that my warning about quarrels is not needed though it never hurts to be reminded. I in no way intended to imply that the question itself was unimportant, merely that it was not worth arguing over (few subjects are worth argument).
I so far have enjoyed my reading here and look forward to being part of your little community. I would not be the least surprised that I've crossed paths with many of you before in other forums. I agree Bluesky that your writing is familiar and I think we have crossed paths, but I'm sure my online-handle (name) has probably changed a few times as likely as yours have too. So it's can be difficult to always identify names to past interactions. Besides I can barely keep my own family members names straight. I am far from perfect and don't expect anyone else to be so either. Thank you again for welcoming me, and I do hope that I may bring some meaningful discussion and content to the forum.
Blessings, Ted
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Post by mfox on Aug 1, 2018 2:30:06 GMT
Thank you for the welcomes. I feel you all received my point well. I will succinctly restate it for clarity: Questions which devolve to argumentive/divisive nature are not worth while, yet looking for questions with a open mind fully acknowledging our own ignorance is the proper path. I surely have not read enough scripture (especially of the Old Testament) to be able say anything on the subject with any certainty. It is quite clear that my warning about quarrels is not needed though it never hurts to be reminded. I in no way intended to imply that the question itself was unimportant, merely that it was not worth arguing over (few subjects are worth argument). I so far have enjoyed my reading here and look forward to being part of your little community. I would not be the least surprised that I've crossed paths with many of you before in other forums. I agree Bluesky that your writing is familiar and I think we have crossed paths, but I'm sure my online-handle (name) has probably changed a few times as likely as yours have too. So it's can be difficult to always identify names to past interactions. Besides I can barely keep my own family members names straight. I am far from perfect and don't expect anyone else to be so either. Thank you again for welcoming me, and I do hope that I may bring some meaningful discussion and content to the forum. Blessings, Ted Thanks for your reply Ted but to just clarify my point wasn't to argue with anyone but to point out that dinosaurs didn't live before man because as Paul states that death didn't happen before Adams sin.
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Post by BlueSky on Aug 1, 2018 2:51:39 GMT
Thank you for the welcomes. I feel you all received my point well. I will succinctly restate it for clarity: Questions which devolve to argumentive/divisive nature are not worth while, yet looking for questions with a open mind fully acknowledging our own ignorance is the proper path. I surely have not read enough scripture (especially of the Old Testament) to be able say anything on the subject with any certainty. It is quite clear that my warning about quarrels is not needed though it never hurts to be reminded. I in no way intended to imply that the question itself was unimportant, merely that it was not worth arguing over (few subjects are worth argument). I so far have enjoyed my reading here and look forward to being part of your little community. I would not be the least surprised that I've crossed paths with many of you before in other forums. I agree Bluesky that your writing is familiar and I think we have crossed paths, but I'm sure my online-handle (name) has probably changed a few times as likely as yours have too. So it's can be difficult to always identify names to past interactions. Besides I can barely keep my own family members names straight. I am far from perfect and don't expect anyone else to be so either. Thank you again for welcoming me, and I do hope that I may bring some meaningful discussion and content to the forum. Blessings, Ted Hi Ted, I understand your point crystal clear, as do most Christains that I know. I also concur. No one wants to unnecessarily divide the Body, especially on non-essentials. I have belonged and continue to belong to many forums. We have some very robust, interesting and fruitful conversations on a wide variety of issues. Occasionally, we will see the odd hot head, or person who just can’t see the macro picture and some chats get over-heated. Definitely happens, but in my experience, this is more the persons fault than the issues fault. Subtle but distinctive differenence. “Come let us reason together,” says the Lord comes to mind. Isaiah 1: 18 This is more my thinking on talking about issues, no matter what they are. Agree! Welcome aboard
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Post by princess on Apr 20, 2019 23:16:56 GMT
The entire problem rests on the fact we are reading the text through a completely different lens that distorts the text. We are trying to recreate a historical photograph from the text while the historical photograph is blurred and cannot be recreated.
We ask ourselves "who did Cain marry" because we are trying to recreate a photograph instead of keeping our focus on the actual message.
The same rings true for the gospels. The chronology is out of order because the writers are communicating a greater message than a historical documentary. This is not in any way saying the gospels are non historical either.
For instance, if the writers were concerned first and foremost with creating a historical documentary then we would know the dates of the birth, baptism, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. But after 2000 years we are still arguing about these dates because it is important to us but not important to the writers
Marty, you said animal death while Paul says death to all people
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Post by mfox on Apr 20, 2019 23:47:46 GMT
The entire problem rests on the fact we are reading the text through a completely different lens that distorts the text. We are trying to recreate a historical photograph from the text while the historical photograph is blurred and cannot be recreated. We ask ourselves "who did Cain marry" because we are trying to recreate a photograph instead of keeping our focus on the actual message. The same rings true for the gospels. The chronology is out of order because the writers are communicating a greater message than a historical documentary. This is not in any way saying the gospels are non historical either. For instance, if the writers were concerned first and foremost with creating a historical documentary then we would know the dates of the birth, baptism, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. But after 2000 years we are still arguing about these dates because it is important to us but not important to the writers Marty, you said animal death while Paul says death to all people Humm do you agree with me but wanting me to dig deeper or are you saying it doesn’t matter so it not important? LOL I do think that Paul means death itself but I think the fact that God said it was good in the garden would also be meaning no imperfection and death of animals would of meant imperfection
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Post by BlueSky on Apr 20, 2019 23:58:12 GMT
The entire problem rests on the fact we are reading the text through a completely different lens that distorts the text. Hi Princess, Possible, but not necessarily always true. Case by case point would need to be reviewed. But I generally concur. I totally agree, would we should not look too deep, for too much detail, [ some of which may be wrong ] but much detail does exist and can be found. Perhaps not crystal clear, but clear enough to strengthen ones faith imo. Again tho, specifics would need to be highlighted to best discussed. I will have to disagree here with you here, respectfully. It’s completely natural for us to want “recreate a photograph” from the stories we read in scripture. I like how you put that. We all do it to some degree. . I don’t think God would be upset at this per se. Yes, if we take things too far and go off on a tangent creating doctrines or stumbling blocks for others, this is bad, totally agree. But wondering who might have been Cain’s wife; this is an excellent question with some great answers that actually support the Biblical narrative as real history; not myths as liberals would try and sell us. Totally agree. They had a great message AND what they said was historical. Well these dates are not important, but they do exist, if the events happened in our past. But again, reaching for too much detail may lead to problems. I agree in your example- the dates are not important, [ in detail ] but saying that the dates are real, is [ even if we don’t know them ] . Yes?
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Post by princess on Apr 21, 2019 0:09:52 GMT
Hello
"I do think that Paul means death itself but I think the fact that God said it was good in the garden would also be meaning no imperfection and death of animals would of meant imperfection"
God declared everything good in creation in relation to form and function. This is why God declared that it is not "good" for the man to be alone. Adam was disordered and could not participate in creation without the divine intervention of a helper
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Post by princess on Apr 21, 2019 0:14:18 GMT
I meant order and function.
Let me read the text in the same manner then. How could god tell Adam and Eve they would die if they never knew death or saw death?
I am now imposing an idea into the text
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Post by mfox on Apr 21, 2019 0:38:54 GMT
The entire problem rests on the fact we are reading the text through a completely different lens that distorts the text. We are trying to recreate a historical photograph from the text while the historical photograph is blurred and cannot be recreated. We ask ourselves "who did Cain marry" because we are trying to recreate a photograph instead of keeping our focus on the actual message. The same rings true for the gospels. The chronology is out of order because the writers are communicating a greater message than a historical documentary. This is not in any way saying the gospels are non historical either. For instance, if the writers were concerned first and foremost with creating a historical documentary then we would know the dates of the birth, baptism, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. But after 2000 years we are still arguing about these dates because it is important to us but not important to the writers Marty, you said animal death while Paul says death to all people Humm do you agree with me but wanting me to dig deeper or are you saying it doesn’t matter so it not important? LOL I do think that Paul means death itself but I think the fact that God said it was good in the garden would also be meaning no imperfection and death of animals would of meant imperfection Great insite again here events are important not dates. this I believe is also true about biblical events in the future too
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Post by mfox on Apr 21, 2019 0:43:09 GMT
I meant order and function. Let me read the text in the same manner then. How could god tell Adam and Eve they would die if they never knew death or saw death? I am now imposing an idea into the text Good question I guess He could of explained it to them do do tell what you’re thinking
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Post by princess on Apr 21, 2019 16:08:02 GMT
Hi Mfox, you wrote
"Good question I guess He could of explained it to them"
Or maybe the question is based on a wrong assumption that keeps on moving in the wrong direction? Like talking about china while the bible is talking India?
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