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Post by princess on Mar 16, 2022 14:45:52 GMT
OK! Let's talk credibility! Marty gave a video that clearly proves the media is more than willing to intentionally lie to promote their narrative. Are you willing to acknowledge this fact? Yes or No?
Are you willing to trust a map? If the answer is yes then please look at a map of Germany. Do you see east and west Germany or a united Germany? The united Germany you see on your map was a major concession made by Russia. Agree? Yes or No? Do you know it was a massive concession to allow Germany to reunite under nato? Agree? Yes or no? Do you understand this concession was made with security promises that nato would not move one inch eastwards? Agree? Yes or No? Do you see from your map that Nato expanded right to russian borders? Agree? Yes or no? Do you understand we broke our promise? Agree? Yes or no? Do you understand Russia has tried negotiating on this for over 30 years? Agree? Yes or no?
It would be pointless to proceed any more if you cannot accept what is clearly shown on a map.
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Post by foxjj on Mar 16, 2022 15:49:35 GMT
I agree that it is pointless for us to proceed because your argument justifies Russia’s brutal invasion, while I condemn their actions which has caused so much devastation and caused the death of thousands of adults and children. I also do not accept that the video Marty posted to be truthful reporting but slanted to endorse a political point. At the time I let it go in the hope that it was a one off bringing this conversation to a close as I had requested.
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Post by princess on Mar 17, 2022 14:37:26 GMT
I am not presenting an argument to justify war but giving logical details behind what caused the war. You just cannot think logically because the media is very effective at emotional manipulation. Top strategic thinkers warned the us government what would happen if they continued down the path of expansion, including Joe Biden. They did it anyways! www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-resurfaced-clip-russia-baltic-states-1997-video-1685864 I keep giving hard facts but you keep deflecting with emotional reactions?
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Post by foxjj on Mar 17, 2022 16:07:37 GMT
Thank you for this last post, it lays out more clearly your intent. Politics has always been a dirty game ignoring the consequences on people. Emotional reaction manipulated by the media has nothing to do with my reaction to the previous posts because they came across as callous ignoring the plight of the victims of aggregation.
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Post by princess on Mar 19, 2022 17:17:36 GMT
To keep sending more weapons to Ukraine will increase Ukrainian tears and bloodshed. We promised not to expand nato one inch eastward so now is the time to seek peace and start keeping our word.
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Post by foxjj on Mar 20, 2022 6:56:56 GMT
Interesting comments. To be forcefully taken over by an aggressive neighbour would bring even more tears and suffering after so much bloodshed. You keep referring to NATO extending towards Russia, let’s not forget that in June 2017, the Ukrainian Parliament itself adopted legislation regarding membership in NATO. This made sense because of Russian aggressive land grabs.
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Post by princess on Mar 23, 2022 5:30:00 GMT
NATO expansion never stooped since the US funded a coup of an elected government in Ukraine in 2014. The transcript of Victoria Nuland's phone call with Geoffrey Pyatt, the US Ambassador to Ukraine was leaked discussing regime change after the coup. www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSxaa-67yGM ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2014/february/11/victoria-nuland-comes-clean-with-dirty-language.aspxThe annexation of Crimea took place AFTER this coup. Anyone with even a C+ in the history of the former USSR would know the Russian ethnic majority of Crimeans would welcome a return to Russia with open arms. The Crimeans not only celebrated their return to Russia, two thirds of the Ukrainian military stationed in Crimea defected to Russia or changed sides. The USA is responsible for what's going on and they can stop it. The parties behaving like Hitler are the western democracies who’ve been fanning the fires in Ukraine and tossing a civil war in Russia’s face. These are problems Putin does not need or want but also problems he cannot ignore. The USA was, is and currently funding nazi hate groups that have been roaming the countryside killing and harrassing gypsies and ethnic russians. John Mcain and Lindsey Graham were actively meeting with nazis. Do you trust time? time.com/5926750/azov-far-right-movement-facebook/Do you believe the nazis themselves? www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOBntnuYCMA www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv69EghH9jQIs it coincidence that Russia has two warm water naval bases in Syria and Ukraine? Is it coincidence that Ukraine and Syria were CIA regime toppling carnivals?
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Post by foxjj on Mar 23, 2022 7:02:06 GMT
You wrote “The USA is responsible for what's going on and they can stop it. The parties behaving like Hitler are the western democracies who’ve been fanning the fires in Ukraine and tossing a civil war in Russia’s face. These are problems Putin does not need or want but also problems he cannot ignore.”
So now the western democracies are responsible for Putin’s bloody aggression upon a sovereign national causing untold suffering and death. There can not be any justification for this suffering and death. I do think that we both agree that politics is a dirty game however, Putin is the only one who is responsible for this aggression. Consequently he and he alone has the power to bring this unspeakable suffering to an end.
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Post by princess on Mar 23, 2022 12:50:35 GMT
So basically, in your view:
1.China could fund and create a coup in Mexico to overthrow an elected government. 2.Plan and install the new government. 3.Fund nazi ultranationalist's to create a civil war that kills and terrorizes anyone not native mexican and pro american.
I am certain the US would go to war before step 1.
Basically, justification for regime change, violence and ethnic cleansing on a sovereign nation is moral when the US performs it but is evil when russia reacts to it?
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Post by foxjj on Mar 23, 2022 15:42:28 GMT
I am totally amazed here. How can a Christian legitimize the aggression purported by Putin resulting in so much suffering and death?
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Post by Naama on Mar 23, 2022 18:28:44 GMT
I am amazed that a Christian could ignore the suffering of many and the death of over 12,000 people by ultranationalist radicals supported by the west?
Why not support peace? Have you never heard 8f the Minsk agreements?
Did you not read anything I supplied? They were all before the current conflict.
So if russia withdraws we can go back to righteous ethnic cleansing? Would that make you happy?
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Post by mfox on Mar 23, 2022 18:32:04 GMT
After reading all of these post I think that you both need to clarify a few things and are maybe misunderstanding each other as it’s getting nowhere and after all we are all on the same team and have the same purpose.
Princess can you please explain your stance on all of this?
I think that you are not condoning the war but that you are trying to show the reason that you believe for it is weather the war is right or wrong. Also that you are saying that the media doesn’t tell the whole truth and If not then why and what would the US or even NOTO do in the same situation? So could you please clarify your position on all of this?
JJfox could you ask Princess direct questions to get direct answers to what you think Princess views are to get a better understanding on where she is coming from?
Although this isn’t what this site is about truth does matter and the real shame of all of this and the most important thing is that innocent people on both sides have suffered and died due to the choices that other people make.
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Post by foxjj on Mar 24, 2022 6:51:56 GMT
I am amazed that a Christian could ignore the suffering of many and the death of over 12,000 people by ultranationalist radicals supported by the west? Why not support peace? Have you never heard 8f the Minsk agreements? Did you not read anything I supplied? They were all before the current conflict. So if russia withdraws we can go back to righteous ethnic cleansing? Would that make you happy? So what makes you think that I ignore the suffering or death of innocent people? What makes you think that I do not support peace? Why do you ask questions such as the last line in your post?
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Post by Naama on Mar 24, 2022 22:14:13 GMT
Did you not open and read the ultranstionslist press conference provided?
The nazis openly brag about the west supporting them because they like killing people. They get the job done.
Are these the type of press conferences we would ever see in canada or the usa?
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Post by foxjj on Mar 24, 2022 22:32:09 GMT
You continue to avoid answering my questions which were in response to your previous accusing questions. So here they are again;
So what makes you think that I ignore the suffering or death of innocent people?
What makes you think that I do not support peace?
Why do you ask questions such as the last line in your post, which was: "So if russia withdraws we can go back to righteous ethnic cleansing? Would that make you happy?"
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Post by princess on Mar 25, 2022 4:40:03 GMT
1. By supporting propaganda that desires to increase and escalate the killing in Ukraine even to the point of a nuclear war.
2. Same as above.
3. The moment Russia pulls out then the suffering and death will probably increase dramatically because the nazis can claim they drove out the russians and won. Does the world want a fully nazified Ukraine?
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Post by foxjj on Mar 25, 2022 6:55:46 GMT
OK enough of this. Propaganda works on both sides and as I have already wrote politics is a dirty business and truth is it’s victim. We are not going to agree because we are looking at the suffering of victims from different perspectives. This back and forth accomplishes nothing except the loss of respect for one another. So let’s bring this to an end.
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Post by Naama on Mar 25, 2022 15:24:20 GMT
I don't in any way believe we have to agree on something in order to respect each other. This is not my problem.
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Post by foxjj on Mar 28, 2022 7:39:36 GMT
Because you are concerned about the nazi element in Ukraine, I invite you to check out this BBC report in the hope that it will relieve your concerns. Ukraine war: Ros Atkins on... Putin’s false ‘Nazi’ claims www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60853404
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Post by princess on Mar 29, 2022 15:44:58 GMT
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