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Post by randy on Aug 26, 2021 16:52:36 GMT
I'm not opposed to the possibility of an "Old Earth." Science seems to support it, although it can be argued that an omnipotent God can "do anything," and can make the history of the universe "appear old," and really be young.
But what bothers me is that this then becomes a tool to reduce the universe to a uniformitarian model, in which forces in the universe remain static such that everything can be timed, as if those mileage markers can determine, accurately how old everything is. I think uniformitarianism is unlikely, such that men can have a constant age assigned to them. We cannot say that Adam did not live over 900 years, nor that Adam couldn't have existed in a perfect body. We do not know that the things that age men today have remained constant for a million years!
In my view, extending the age of the earth has become an argument for evolution, explaining men as evolving from the animals and from apes. The supernatural God is ruled out as everything is attempted to be explained by natural forces that we actually see today. But we don't see natural forces today that explain the existence of men. And we do experience, if we are believers, the supernatural God.
The reality is, human history begins pretty much as the Bible describes it. The rest is pure speculation or pure fiction. We should live by what we know, and not by what we guess happened.
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Post by foxjj on Aug 27, 2021 15:48:10 GMT
Yes Randy there will always be speculation. Always those who will not accept God’s Word, believing it as to simple an explanation.
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Post by randy on Aug 31, 2021 15:05:21 GMT
Yes Randy there will always be speculation. Always those who will not accept God’s Word, believing it as to simple an explanation. I agree. God's written word is both rational and experiential. By that I mean it makes sense and also has within it a powerful supernatural revelation of God. We don't always properly attach this spiritual revelation with proper reasoning. But the truths about God and history are powerfully presented in the Scriptures, and evidence an unparalleled representation of reality. What the Bible presents as true is basically what we experience in our lives, particularly if we choose to follow Christ, God's Son. If we wish to know what the Bible means when it speaks of redemption, we must take God at His word that we need to live through the Spirit of Christ. Then we will know what "new life in Christ" means.
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Post by princess on Sept 2, 2021 11:30:28 GMT
Hi Randy!
Sounds great but the age of the earth is not a moral issue. Did God promise a redeemer after the fall to give us secret knowledge of the age of the earth?
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Post by randy on Sept 3, 2021 4:44:12 GMT
Hi Randy! Sounds great but the age of the earth is not a moral issue. Did God promise a redeemer after the fall to give us secret knowledge of the age of the earth? No, you're quite right, princess, and I agree with you completely. Some things God left to be discovered over time. Perhaps God was giving His kids an Easter Egg Hunt, in which over the years we discovered technology and find the means to look back in time, making reasonable assumptions? I actually believe the universe and the earth are old, but the history of mankind young. I know it's a bit quirky, but I also believe in the Millennial Sabbath Theory, that we are approaching the 6 thousandths year of human history, and preparing to enter into the 7th millennium, which will fulfill the Millennium of Rev 20. That theory has been around for perhaps more than 2000 years. And it doesn't appear to be far off. Much that is happening in the world looks precisely as Daniel envisioned it. Europe is falling away from Christianity, and appearing to unify under a form of atheism. What I don't accept is macro-evolution, which is the fall back position of those who wish to not make any scientific assumptions with God as part of the equation. Doing science without God may seem reasonable, but it really isn't. If there is a God, and we know there is, then to eliminate Him from the equation as Creator is forcing ourselves to assign a false cause to the creation of mankind. Hence, we end up with evolution. Evolution in some sense takes place, but nobody has ever been able to prove macro-evolution. It is simply the only explanation people have when they don't factor in an omnipotent Creator.
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Post by princess on Sept 3, 2021 13:28:45 GMT
Hi Randy.
I mentioned a few posts ago the gospel can be perverted just like the law was perverted. Does the Apostle Paul point to Adam and Eve to teach about the age of the earth or millennial sabbath theories? No! He harkens back to Adam and Eve to teach about marriage.
Nobody here can coherently answer even the most basic questions on marriage...
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Post by foxjj on Sept 3, 2021 20:39:38 GMT
Princess, I have started a new thread on marriage divorce and remarriage in the controversial board in order to cover the subject in one thread. Looking forward to reading everyone’s views on this controversial subject.
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Post by princess on Sept 4, 2021 15:27:56 GMT
Foxjj,
The fact that Jesus Christ and the Apostles quoted Genesis to teach marital truth is embedded in the New Testament but what Randy claims is a completely foreign idea not claimed by the Gospel and New Testament. Let me get this straight: What Jesus and the Apostles do claim concerning Genesis belongs in the controversial section while foreign theories belong in the mainstream section?
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Post by foxjj on Sept 4, 2021 15:36:19 GMT
Princess, I was responding to your comment on marriage, which is not what Randy is discussing in this thread. I chose to start a new thread in controversy because the subject can indeed be very controversial.
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Post by Naama on Sept 4, 2021 19:17:38 GMT
I also hope you understand the reason why I will not discuss the words of Jesus and the apostles in relation to genesis and marriage in a controversial section.
I assure you women are not burning down western civilization or its church because of the age of the earth.
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Post by Naama on Sept 4, 2021 19:32:15 GMT
Consider this point. I mentioned the gospel can be perverted just like the law...just reduce meaning to meaninglessness. You guys never produced this chicanery but seem to be stuck within it.
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Post by foxjj on Sept 4, 2021 23:17:35 GMT
I also hope you understand the reason why I will not discuss the words of Jesus and the apostles in relation to genesis and marriage in a controversial section. I assure you women are not burning down western civilization or its church because of the age of the earth. Your words “I assure you women are not burning down western civilization or its church because of the age of the earth.” are very extreme. The only reason that I started the other thread is because of the many and varying understandings of the subject title.
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Post by foxjj on Sept 4, 2021 23:20:31 GMT
Consider this point. I mentioned the gospel can be perverted just like the law...just reduce meaning to meaninglessness. You guys never produced this chicanery but seem to be stuck within it. That the Gospel can and sometimes is perverted there is no argument. However I do not accept that we are stuck with it.
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Post by princess on Sept 5, 2021 14:41:15 GMT
Hi foxjj,
We are in a cycle of distortion but we are not stuck with it since we have free will and free will grants us the choice of repentance and change. You can make that choice by deleting or moving counterfeit messages of Genesis that Jesus and the Apostles simply do not support to the controversial section and make the message they do support front and center.
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Post by foxjj on Sept 5, 2021 15:59:45 GMT
Princess, please explain what you mean by “deleting or moving counterfeit messages of Genesis that Jesus and the Apostles simply do not suppor” My reason for starting the thread in controversial was because the subject is controversial in many ways even among believers.
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Post by princess on Sept 5, 2021 16:59:48 GMT
Jesus and the Apostles quoted the first three chapters of Genesis to teach about the intended meaning of marriage that Adam and Eve rejected...not the age of the earth. How did the disciples react to Jesus's teaching on marriage? Did Jesus get out the baby powder or supply some soothers to make them feel better about truth and reality? Did he go on and on blah blah blah mansplaining them into accepting what he said just to shut him up? No! Jesus laid down the law and said this is how it is and if you cannot accept what he says then don't get married.
That's it!
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Post by randy on Sept 5, 2021 17:44:48 GMT
Jesus and the Apostles quoted the first three chapters of Genesis to teach about the intended meaning of marriage that Adam and Eve rejected...not the age of the earth. How did the disciples react to Jesus's teaching on marriage? Did Jesus get out the baby powder or supply some soothers to make them feel better about truth and reality? Did he go on and on blah blah blah mansplaining them into accepting what he said just to shut him up? No! Jesus laid down the law and said this is how it is and if you cannot accept what he says then don't get married. That's it! Not everything is about marriage. The 1st 3 chapters of Genesis are not about marriage alone. Questions about the age of the earth are current issues being talked about among Christians of various brands, and they impact students at colleges and universities who are told that God must be left out of the equation. I'm addressing that. You sound like you have a central issue you want to address. I don't read all of your posts, although I'm interested in most all issues. What I'm not interested in is feminist hate for men in any form, nor in the abuse of women in any form. This is a tactic being used by the Left, in my opinion, to cause people to yield to their leaders. To divide people in any way is a ruse to get them to seek arbitration by those in power. And these leaders are seeking absolute power, without being answerable to God.
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Post by Naama on Sept 5, 2021 19:20:53 GMT
These same questions would also apply before and after the cross but Jesus and the apostles were not lured away from the message.
You seem to have a desire to side step the immutable cosmological order of genesis for junk science.
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Post by foxjj on Sept 6, 2021 7:25:12 GMT
OK Princess, this website is dedicated to the promotion of the Gospel of Jesus Christ so why don’t you tell us what Jesus and the apostles message was that we are missing.
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