Post by BlueSky on May 2, 2019 2:24:32 GMT
A friend from another forum posted this, it was good so I am putting it up. ~blue
I'm teaching the book of Joel this Thursday night at our community Bible study.
Here's the problem with Joel 2:28-32. No one reads Joel 2:12-27.
Joel 2:28 says "And AFTERWARD...". OK. After what
After Joel 2:12-17: This describes a GREAT mourning over personal and corporate sin. Literally the nation of Judah [and Israel] fasting, mourning, weeping, tearing their hearts [not their clothes], going through a national fasting, consecrating the entire assembly [not just the leadership], and the priest weeping and praying for the people.
After Joel 2:18-27: This describes what happens AFTER the great and corporate repentance. God heals the land. God makes them perfectly productive again. The people are rejoicing IN God. And the people KNOW that the LORD is their God.
THEN, the outpouring comes.
Joel 2:28-32 has been, for all intents and purposes, fulfilled already. I didn't make that up and it's not my opinion. God already said so through Peter in Acts 2 which you cited in the OP.
Acts 2:14-21 = But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them: "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words. For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel. 'And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy...….." [and he goes on to quote the entire passage from Joel]
Peter and Paul both had visions. Cornelius had visions. The daughters of Philip prophesied. There were great signs and wonders during this time. People were repenting and coming to Christ by the literal hundreds of thousands - all across the known world - and wherever the Word was spread.
I don't see it happening today on that much of a scale - if at all. But then again, I'm a cynic
I don't see any nations, let alone churches or individual people, weeping and fasting over their sins. I don't see Christian leadership begging God to forgive the people.
Perhaps this will happen again. I believe it will. But now?
No. There are far too many Christians who spend Sunday morning singing "Oh, How I Love Jesus" in church and spend Sunday night watching Game of Thrones on HBO. and guess which one excites them more, is more meaningful to them, is what they crave and look forward to and discuss with friends and family during the week?
On Monday morning, I can guarantee you that they are not thinking about Sunday morning's sermon, but can recall with clarity every homosexual/heterosexual sex scene, every rape/incest scene, every scene with a nude woman, every grotesquely violent scene, and every use of the "f" word and "c" word. [No, I have not seen it, but have read several reviews both pro and con. Why? Because I have Christian friends by the dozens who never miss an episode.]
And that's just a minute drop in an ocean of the churches' problems.
No, our weeping and mourning has not occurred yet. And yet we think God is going to bless all of this.
A comment on the above from a Pastor...
Amen! Many Christians live a "check" the block life of what they believe a "Christian" is. I say in my posts and your's details... it's about a RELATIONSHIP with God and checking a block (Sunday church, saying a grace before a meal, saying God bless you to the clerk as the store...check...), IS NOT a relationship when one's worldliness has not changed.
But, I do know, God is faithful and will do work in even those lives (as we see through Paul's writings to the Corinthians). But again... imagine seeing how God works in AND THROUGH the lives of those who do put down worldliness as they draw in close to God and KNOW Him as He wants to be known
I would like to be able to attend your full Bible study!
I'm teaching the book of Joel this Thursday night at our community Bible study.
Here's the problem with Joel 2:28-32. No one reads Joel 2:12-27.
Joel 2:28 says "And AFTERWARD...". OK. After what
After Joel 2:12-17: This describes a GREAT mourning over personal and corporate sin. Literally the nation of Judah [and Israel] fasting, mourning, weeping, tearing their hearts [not their clothes], going through a national fasting, consecrating the entire assembly [not just the leadership], and the priest weeping and praying for the people.
After Joel 2:18-27: This describes what happens AFTER the great and corporate repentance. God heals the land. God makes them perfectly productive again. The people are rejoicing IN God. And the people KNOW that the LORD is their God.
THEN, the outpouring comes.
Joel 2:28-32 has been, for all intents and purposes, fulfilled already. I didn't make that up and it's not my opinion. God already said so through Peter in Acts 2 which you cited in the OP.
Acts 2:14-21 = But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them: "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words. For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel. 'And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy...….." [and he goes on to quote the entire passage from Joel]
Peter and Paul both had visions. Cornelius had visions. The daughters of Philip prophesied. There were great signs and wonders during this time. People were repenting and coming to Christ by the literal hundreds of thousands - all across the known world - and wherever the Word was spread.
I don't see it happening today on that much of a scale - if at all. But then again, I'm a cynic
I don't see any nations, let alone churches or individual people, weeping and fasting over their sins. I don't see Christian leadership begging God to forgive the people.
Perhaps this will happen again. I believe it will. But now?
No. There are far too many Christians who spend Sunday morning singing "Oh, How I Love Jesus" in church and spend Sunday night watching Game of Thrones on HBO. and guess which one excites them more, is more meaningful to them, is what they crave and look forward to and discuss with friends and family during the week?
On Monday morning, I can guarantee you that they are not thinking about Sunday morning's sermon, but can recall with clarity every homosexual/heterosexual sex scene, every rape/incest scene, every scene with a nude woman, every grotesquely violent scene, and every use of the "f" word and "c" word. [No, I have not seen it, but have read several reviews both pro and con. Why? Because I have Christian friends by the dozens who never miss an episode.]
And that's just a minute drop in an ocean of the churches' problems.
No, our weeping and mourning has not occurred yet. And yet we think God is going to bless all of this.
A comment on the above from a Pastor...
Amen! Many Christians live a "check" the block life of what they believe a "Christian" is. I say in my posts and your's details... it's about a RELATIONSHIP with God and checking a block (Sunday church, saying a grace before a meal, saying God bless you to the clerk as the store...check...), IS NOT a relationship when one's worldliness has not changed.
But, I do know, God is faithful and will do work in even those lives (as we see through Paul's writings to the Corinthians). But again... imagine seeing how God works in AND THROUGH the lives of those who do put down worldliness as they draw in close to God and KNOW Him as He wants to be known
I would like to be able to attend your full Bible study!