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Post by randy on Feb 12, 2021 16:50:53 GMT
Why can't gays be genuine Christians and also marry each other randy? They can be viewed as "Christians" and they can legally marry in my own country. I'm defining "Christianity" not as one's preferred religion, but rather, by biblical standards of morality. A true biblical Christian or a true evangelical Christian is, in my view, a Christian who has invited Christ to dwell permanently in him through the Spirit of God, and who therefore follows the guidance of God's Spirit in everything. I don't believe one can pursue the gay lifestyle by the Spirit of God. God has prohibited homosexuality consistently throughout history, creating "Man" male and female to be a partnership consisting of different genders. The animal kingdom may include different rules, of course. But we're talking about God's creation of "Man." There have been changes like polygamy and monogamy that God seems to have tolerated for a variety of reasons. But none of this involves a creative change like the creation of genders. In other words, God is not "progressive" in guiding us morally, changing the morals based on society's changes. If the society begins to allow gay marriage, we may marry the same gender, but it isn't, I believe, accepted by God as a "Christian Marriage." There is an example, biblically, of what often appears to be a "moral change," namely incest. Even in our own society, marrying cousins, for example, is tolerated or not tolerated at times and in certain places. But God has consistently denied actual incest, between parents and children, between sisters and brothers, throughout history. The one change in this would be in the beginning, when Adam and Eve had children perhaps over a period of hundreds of years, in which brothers had to marry sisters, probably far removed in upbringing. This is more a matter of practicality than moral change. People lived much longer back then. It is, in fact, over time that incest would become worrisome, particularly when children are raised up in the same home. Longevity came to be much shorter, and families grew up together at the same time.
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Post by randy on Feb 12, 2021 17:00:44 GMT
So gays are christian in name only but are not really Christians. Wouldn't your argument that everything is not all about sex and gender also apply to them? Yes, it isn't all about sex and gender, even among homosexuals. Their morality consists of what they do or don't do in accordance with God's word to their conscience. God's word still speaks even to the perverted and sinful. God's word always speaks to Man in whatever condition they are in. It is equally bad for a homosexual to murder as to practice the sin of homosexuality. Wrong extends far beyond just the gay lifestyle.
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Post by princess on Feb 15, 2021 1:48:33 GMT
Why is same sex sexuality is a sinful?
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Post by randy on Feb 15, 2021 20:31:36 GMT
Why is same sex sexuality is a sinful? Because God's word determines right and wrong. The Creator makes the rules. We have our own conscience and the record of Scriptures to determine what God is saying to us personally. In my experience God has consistently convinced me that same sex is sinful. I'm convinced that you will see things the same way. To be honest, there was a time in my Christianity when I engaged in non-marital sex--and I began to wonder why it was wrong, as my Christian family said. Ultimately, I caved, because all the things I had been doing wrong I had been rationalizing away. I had lost the ability to discern right and wrong simply because I had developed a habit of ignoring God's word to my conscience. I hope you're not going through that? If you ignore God too many times, you tend to go spiritually blind. And then you're really blind! It's hard to come back from the brink before you suffer devastating problems.
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Post by Naama on Feb 16, 2021 22:16:25 GMT
What defines marital sex from non marital sex?
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Post by randy on Feb 17, 2021 2:33:58 GMT
What defines marital sex from non marital sex? A promise. A promise makes the marriage. True story. My wife and I came from very different backgrounds, and I wasn't sure we would last. But I loved her, and she loved me. So we didn't immediately get a legal marriage, recognized by the State. I just told my "wife" that a vow before God is what marriage is. We can consider ourselves married before God. But my brother was a pastor at the time, and argued against this. He said it was not in compliance with the State, and Christians are to submit to the State. So we got married. But I still believe that it is just the vow a couple make to each other before God that makes the marriage--not ceremony, not papers, not witnesses. It is a commitment in the love of God that refuses to ever betray each other. Even when we fall short we are anxious to return to have divine love for one another. We've been married for decades now. We've been faithful to God and to each other. The differences were indeed a challenge for both of us at times. But love is a very powerful thing, and a vow is, as well.
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Post by princess on Feb 17, 2021 6:54:38 GMT
What are you promising?
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Post by randy on Feb 17, 2021 18:51:12 GMT
I promised fidelity to her alone, in the eyes of God. Because of her pagan background, and relatively new Christianity, I'm not sure she had much faith in my promise. She had been married twice before. Once you make a promise that you are indeed confident in before God you can bet you're going to be challenged on it! So I wouldn't advise making promises before God unless you really believe it is your calling. You will have to survive many tests to your faith.
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Post by Naama on Feb 17, 2021 21:43:54 GMT
So what was the difference between her pagan partnerships and partnership with you? Did they not make a promise? Did you not mske a promise to you previous partner.
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Post by randy on Feb 18, 2021 0:38:12 GMT
So what was the difference between her pagan partnerships and partnership with you? Did they not make a promise? Did you not mske a promise to you previous partner. I made no such promise to previous partners/girlfriends. My current wife is the only wife I've had. My wife, being married twice before me, did engage in the typical Christian vow, though she and her 1st husband were really pagans at heart. Her 1st husband cheated on her. Her 2nd marriage she was married to a man who claimed to be Christian but really didn't live the Christian life. On their honeymoon he asked her, "Why did we get married?" These marriages are covenant relationships which God honors, Christian or not. Being, however, that they are not well-informed by Christian counsel they have problems from the beginning and lead to termination. What makes a "Christian marriage" is not that it is exclusively recognized by God, but that it ideally is informed by Christian counsel, and operates by the Spirit of God, whose word constantly advises each partner along the way. There's a much better chance at resolving big issues. When I say a couple are "informed by Christian counsel," I'm not talking about Christian counsellors, but about God Himself. He operates in the lives of those who promise themselves to be His, and He responds with the promise: "I will never leave you, nor forsake you."
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Post by Naama on Feb 18, 2021 21:43:46 GMT
What I am getting from you randy is what validates marriage are personal feelings and emotion.
Can you explain what transformational change must take place a couples relationship from living in sin to marriage?
Can you explain it in a functional sense not in abstractions?
Can you explain what a couple who live in sin are repenting from?
Can you explain the morality of virginity? What would a man or woman need to repent for not being one until marriage
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Post by randy on Feb 18, 2021 22:09:12 GMT
What I am getting from you randy is what validates marriage are personal feelings and emotion. Can you explain what transformational change must take place a couples relationship from living in sin to marriage? Can you explain it in a functional sense not in abstractions? Can you explain what a couple who live in sin are repenting from? Can you explain the morality of virginity? What would a man or woman need to repent for not being one until marriage You would be a prime candidate to read something by Francis Schaeffer. He understood the modern problem with language, particularly with explaining the difference between what Christian words mean and what non-Christians mean by those same words. For example, the word "love" has a Christian memory of what it meant at one time. But in the modern sense, "love" is relative to how one experiences it in their own romance, in their own family, and among their own friends. If that experience is disappointing, belief in "love" in the Christian sense is really artificial and betrays an underlying ulterior motive. I do not see marriage as an "abstraction," Christian marriage or non-Christian marriage. God validates marriage because it is a human decision made by responsible adults. When they promise something to one another it obtains moral value, because God recognizes [generic] man as His representative in his decision-making. If we are talking about a Christian State that prohibits, by law, cohabitation without legal marriage, sanctioned by the State, then it would be a sin for people to claim they're married before God while they betray their own citizenship in the State. All these things have moral values attached to them, and are recognized by God. But if we are in a religiously-neutral State where there are no official demands, a couple may decide if their marriage is a true marriage or not simply when they covenant together to stay faithful to one another. God recognizes that for its moral value. God initiated marriage in the beginning, and recognizes it as a legitimate form of mutual contract. When a person "sins," he sins primarily because he renders decisions apart from God. He may make covenants that God acknowledges, but still be viewed as a sinner because he is living apart from God. Sin is, again, living apart from God, and making decisions apart from consulting God's will or Spirit. So a person may be legitimately married in the eyes of God, and still be viewed as a sinner. But the marriage of a sinner is not a specifically "Christian marriage" because the persons are not Christians while they are engaging in a marriage contract. It is the fact that both parties in a marriage are actual Christians that makes it a Christian marriage. The advantages of a Christian marriage are the same as the advantage a Christian has over a non-Christian. God is there in each individual in a Christian marriage, giving them spiritual fellowship and assistance, as well as guidance. That isn't there for a non-Christian marriage precisely because the couple do not invite God to be in their lives, and may not even know it is available. God does not thrust Himself on people, but uses people to reach out to them in a way that they can relate to. God is reaching out to mankind all of the time, but one of the ways He reaches out to them is by showing them His kindness as expressed in His work in Christians.
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Post by Naama on Feb 19, 2021 22:44:33 GMT
It must be so frustrating and time consuming trying to make a round peg fit into a square hole. Do you want to change randy?
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